What diplomat George Kent said about Rudy Giuliani -- and Hunter Biden
2019-11-07 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: Just how far did the president'spersonal lawyer go to undermine America's(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:总统的私人律师到底在多大程度上破坏了美国的

normal diplomatic channels with Ukraine?(2)
乌克兰的正常外交渠道?

That was one of the major focuses last monthwhen impeachment investigators in the U.S.(3)
这是上个月美国弹each调查员的主要关注点之一。

House of Representatives interviewed careerState Department official George Kent.(4)
众议院采访了职业国务院官员乔治·肯特。

The full 355-page transcript of Kent's testimonyis public today, the sixth such transcript(5)
肯特(Kent)证词的完整355页抄本今天公开,第六份此类抄本

to be released this week.(6)
将于本周发布。

And our own Nick Schifrin is here with menow to break it all down.(7)
现在,我们自己的尼克·希弗林(Nick Schifrin)和我在一起,将一切分解。

Nick, so, you have been looking at this allday long.(8)
尼克,所以,你整天都在看这个。

So much to follow.(9)
有很多后续工作。

First of all, who is George Kent, and whatdid he say of significance?(10)
首先,乔治·肯特是谁,他说什么有意义?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Yes.(11)
尼克·希夫林:是的。

So, George Kent is a career diplomat.(12)
因此,乔治·肯特(George Kent)是一名职业外交官。

He is currently the deputy assistant secretaryof state for European and Eurasian Bureau,(13)
他目前是欧洲和欧亚局副国务卿,

which makes him in charge of European -- Ukrainepolicy.(14)
这使他负责欧洲-乌克兰政策。

And since he joined the State Department in1992, he has served Democratic and Republican(15)
自从他1992年加入国务院以来,他一直为民主党和共和党人服务

administrations.(16)
行政部门。

And here are the two main takeaways from histestimony today.(17)
这是他今天证词的两个主要收获。

He was very explicit about calling out RudyGiuliani, what he said was Giuliani's -- quote(18)
他非常明确地要求召集Rudy Giuliani,他说的是Giuliani的话。

-- "campaign full of lies against the formerU.S. ambassador to Ukraine."(19)
-“竞选活动充满了对前美国驻乌克兰大使的谎言。”

And unlike other diplomats who have testified,he expressed concern about Hunter Biden, who(20)
与其他作证的外交官不同,他对亨特·拜登(Hunter Biden)表示关切,他

was on the board of a notoriously corruptUkrainian company while his father, the vice(21)
是一家臭名昭著的乌克兰公司的董事会成员,而他的父亲

president, was trying to get Ukrainian officialsto tackle corruption.(22)
总统,试图让乌克兰官员解决腐败。

So both of those are at the core of this impeachmentbattle.(23)
因此,这两项都是弹imp战的核心。

For the Democrats, Giuliani is the beginningof the story they want to tell, that the president(24)
对于民主党人而言,朱利安尼(Giuliani)是他们想讲述的故事的开始,即总统

withheld aid to benefit politically.(25)
拒绝提供援助以在政治上受益。

And for Republicans, they want to talk abouthow Hunter Biden was on the board right as(26)
对于共和党人,他们想谈一谈亨特·拜登在董事会中的表现

Vice President Biden was working in Ukraine.(27)
拜登副总统在乌克兰工作。

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, let's take both the things-- both of those.(28)
JUDY WOODRUFF:那么,让我们同时考虑这两个方面。

But let's start with Giuliani.(29)
但是,让我们从朱利安尼开始。

We have heard a lot from different peopleabout Rudy Giuliani's role.(30)
我们从不同的人那里听到很多关于Rudy Giuliani的角色的信息。

What is Kent saying that goes beyond whatanybody else has said?(31)
肯特在说什么,这超出了其他任何人所说的?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Kent's words are much morepointed.(32)
尼克·希夫林:肯特的话更加尖锐。

And he went further in his language than mostpeople.(33)
而且他的语言比大多数人走得更远。

And he's really angry about one incident.(34)
而且他真的为一个事件感到生气。

And that is the ouster of former UkrainianAmbassador Marie Yovanovitch.(35)
那就是前乌克兰大使玛丽·约瓦诺维奇(Marie Yovanovitch)的下台。

Now, just a reminder, Yovanovitch was theTrump administration's ambassador to Ukraine,(36)
现在,提醒一下,约瓦诺维奇(Yovanovitch)是特朗普政府驻乌克兰的大使,

spent 33 years as Foreign Service officer,nominated by both Democratic and Republican(37)
在民主党和共和党提名的外交官中担任了33年

administrations.(38)
行政部门。

She lost her job after Rudy Giuliani convincedthe president that she was anti-Trump.(39)
鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)说服总统说她反对特朗普后,她失去了工作。

And this is what Kent said about that campaignthat Giuliani led.(40)
这就是肯特(Kent)对朱利安尼(Giuliani)领导的那场竞选活动的评价。

He said: "Giuliani at that point had beencarrying on campaign for several months full(41)
他说:“朱利亚尼当时已经进行了整整几个月的竞选

of lies and incorrect information on AmbassadorYovanovitch.(42)
关于Yovanovitch大使的谎言和错误信息。

His assertions and allegations, when againstformer Ambassador Yovanovitch, were without(43)
在反对前大使约瓦诺维奇时,他的主张和指控毫无根据。

basis, untrue, period."(44)
基础,不真实,期限”。

What Democrats say is that this is important,not only because Giuliani helped oust her,(45)
民主党人说这很重要,不仅是因为朱利安尼(Giuliani)帮助驱逐了她,

Yovanovitch, but that, after that, Giulianiconvinced the president to withhold that aid(46)
约瓦诺维奇(Yovanovitch),但在那之后,朱利安尼(Giuliani)说服总统不提供援助

to Ukraine in order to investigate beforeUkraine investigated three things, 2016, Clinton(47)
为了调查乌克兰,然后再调查乌克兰的三件事,2016年,克林顿

and Biden.(48)
和拜登。

Those are the words that Kent said.(49)
这些是肯特所说的话。

That means investigate 2016 hacking and investigatethe company that Hunter Biden was on the board.(50)
这意味着要调查2016年的黑客行为,并调查Hunter Biden担任董事会成员的公司。

JUDY WOODRUFF: So very, very specific.(51)
JUDY WOODRUFF:非常非常具体。

So now let's talk about Hunter Biden, JoeBiden, his father.(52)
现在,让我们谈谈亨特·拜登,乔·拜登,他的父亲。

You're telling us that George Kent very criticalof them as well.(53)
您是在告诉我们,乔治·肯特(George Kent)也非常批评他们。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Absolutely.(54)
尼克·希夫林:好的。

This is a point where Hunter Biden was onthe board of a company called Burisma.(55)
在这一点上,猎人·拜登(Hunter Biden)成为了一家名为Burisma的公司的董事会。

It's a Ukrainian oil and gas company thatis notoriously corrupt.(56)
这是一家臭名昭著的乌克兰石油和天然气公司。

Both U.S. and British officials were actuallywanting to investigate Burisma.(57)
美国和英国官员实际上都想对布斯里马进行调查。

And this was exactly as Vice President Bidenwas leading U.S. policy in Ukraine and trying(58)
而就在拜登副总统领导美国在乌克兰的政策并试图

to root out corruption.(59)
铲除腐败。

So let's listen -- let's look at what Kentsaid about this.(60)
因此,让我们听一听-让我们看看肯特对此有何评论。

"I raised my concerns that I had heard thatHunter Biden was on the board of a Ukrainian(61)
“我担心听到猎人·拜登(Hunter Biden)是乌克兰人的董事会成员

gas company that could create the perceptionof a conflict of interest.(62)
可能引起利益冲突的燃气公司。

The message that I recall hearing back wasthat the vice president's son, Beau, was dying(63)
我记得听到的消息是副总统的儿子博(Beau)快要死了

of cancer" -- this was in 2015 -- "and thatthere was no further bandwidth to deal with(64)
的癌症”-那是在2015年-“而且没有进一步的带宽来应对

family-related issues at that time."(65)
当时与家庭有关的问题。”

So, I talked to a couple of officials whoused to work for Vice President Biden at this(66)
因此,我与曾在此拜登副总统工作的几位官员进行了交谈

time.(67)
时间。

And they are admittedly unsure whether thatparticular conversation took place.(68)
当然,他们不确定是否进行了特定的对话。

But here's their larger point.(69)
但是,这是他们的重点。

They say that Vice President Biden's pushto tackle corruption would have increased(70)
他们说,拜登副总统打击腐败的努力本来会增加

the exposure of Burisma, where his son wason the board, rather than decrease or somehow(71)
儿子在董事会的情况下暴露于布丽斯玛(Burisma),而不是减少或以某种方式

shield the exposure to Burisma.(72)
屏蔽暴露于Burisma的机会。

And what they argue is that, even if therewere some optics problems, the fact is that(73)
他们认为,即使存在一些光学问题,事实是

it didn't affect U.S. policy, didn't affectVice President Biden's policy to try and get(74)
它没有影响美国的政策,也没有影响拜登副总统试图获得的政策。

Ukraine to try to crack down on corruption.(75)
乌克兰试图打击腐败。

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, coming back to who GeorgeKent is, he is an employee of the State Department.(76)
朱迪·伍德鲁夫(JUDY WOODRUFF):因此,回到乔治·肯特(George Kent)的身份,他是美国国务院的雇员。

And you were telling us the secretary of statehad something to say about all this.(77)
您是在告诉我们国务卿对此有话要说。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Yes, absolutely.(78)
尼克·希夫林:是的,绝对。

So, he is one of eight State Department employeeswho have testified, mostly because they have(79)
因此,他是八名已作证的国务院雇员之一,主要是因为他们

been subpoenaed by Democratic-led committees.(80)
由民主党领导的委员会传唤。

And one of the most critical of those employeesall week or all over the last few weeks has(81)
在整个星期或过去几周中,最关键的员工之一是

been former Ambassador Mike McKinley.(82)
曾任迈克·麦金莱大使。

Just as a reminder of who this is, he's formersenior adviser to Secretary of State Mike(83)
提醒他,他是国务卿迈克(Mike)的前高级顾问

Pompeo, a four-time ambassador and, again,nominated by both Republican and Democratic(84)
庞培(Pompeo),四届大使,再次由共和党和民主党提名

administrations.(85)
行政部门。

McKinley's accusation was that Secretary ofState Pompeo didn't defend Yovanovitch during(86)
麦金莱的指控是,庞培国务卿在竞选期间没有为约瓦诺维奇辩护

that campaign that Giuliani was leading, thatcampaign Kent called a campaign of lies.(87)
朱利安尼(Giuliani)领导的竞选活动,肯特(Kent)竞选活动称为谎言运动。

And that ended, of course, with Yovanovitchbeing fired.(88)
最终,约瓦诺维奇被解雇了。

Pompeo was asked about that today for thefirst time.(89)
今天是庞培第一次被问到这一点。

And this is what he said:(90)
他是这样说的:

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. Secretary of State: Withrespect to Ambassador McKinley, I think he(91)
美国国务卿迈克·庞培(MIKE POMPEO):关于麦金莱大使,我认为他

said at the opening statement that he putout that he wasn't particularly involved in(92)
在开幕词中说,他表示自己并没有特别参与

the Ukraine policy.(93)
乌克兰政策。

So it's not surprising that, when AmbassadorYovanovitch returned to the United States,(94)
因此,当约瓦诺维奇大使返回美国时,这不足为奇

that he didn't raise that issue with me.(95)
他没有向我提出这个问题。

It shouldn't surprise anyone that, in May,when that took place, he didn't say a thing(96)
在5月发生那件事时,他没有说任何话,这并不让人感到惊讶

to me.(97)
对我来说。

NICK SCHIFRIN: So Pompeo is right.(98)
尼克·希夫林:庞培是对的。

McKinley didn't bring that issue up in May,but he did in September after the president(99)
麦金莱没有在5月份提出这个问题,但是在总统之后的9月份他做了

disparaged Yovanovitch using pretty specificwords.(100)
用相当具体的词贬低了约瓦诺维奇

In September, McKinley says Pompeo chose notto defend Yovanovitch.(101)
麦金利在九月表示,庞培选择不为约瓦诺维奇辩护。

That's why McKinley resigned.(102)
这就是麦金莱辞职的原因。

Very quickly, separately, a State Departmentofficial tonight tells me that the State Department(103)
国务院官员今晚非常迅速地单独告诉我,国务院

is going to pay for all these attorneys thatare appearing inside these deposition rooms,(104)
要为出现在这些存放室中的所有这些律师付费,

because the committees are not allowing anygovernment officials inside those rooms.(105)
因为委员会不允许这些房间内有任何政府官员。


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