Shields and Brooks on Democratic debate, Bolton’s departure
2019-09-13 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: And that brings us to the analysisof Shields and Brooks.(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:这让我们分析了希尔兹和布鲁克斯。

That's syndicated columnist Mark Shields,and New York Times columnist David Brooks.(2)
这是辛迪加的专栏作家马克·希尔兹和“纽约时报”专栏作家大卫·布鲁克斯。

MARK SHIELDS: Judy.(3)
MARK SHIELDS:朱迪。

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, let's talk about this debate.(4)
JUDY WOODRUFF:我们来谈谈这场辩论。

David, for the first time, the 10 top candidateson the stage one night.(5)
一天晚上,大卫第一次登上舞台上的10位顶级候选人。

We don't have two nights of debate.(6)
我们没有两个晚上的辩论。

What did you take away?(7)
你拿走了什么?

Did one or another help himself or herself,or what?(8)
一个人或另一个人帮助自己,或者什么?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, if you go by raw quality,I thought Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar, and(9)
大卫布鲁克斯:是的,如果按照原始质量,我认为Cory Booker,Amy Klobuchar和

Pete Buttigieg just did the best.(10)
Pete Buttigieg做得最好。

It doesn't seem to help them, no matter howgood they do.(11)
无论他们做得多好,它似乎都没有帮助他们。

But I thought they were confident.(12)
但我认为他们很自信。

They were sometimes forceful, sometimes emotional.(13)
他们有时是有力的,有时是情绪化的。

They're the sort of candidates that DonaldTrump probably couldn't pound down very far.(14)
他们是唐纳德特朗普可能无法击退的候选人。

Among the leaders and the people who wereactually seem very likely to get the nomination,(15)
在实际上似乎很有可能获得提名的领导者和人员中,

I thought Joe Biden, while wobbly a lot, hadthe best night, forceful, beginning to hit(16)
我认为乔拜登在摇摇晃晃的同时,拥有最美好的夜晚,有力,开始打击

back at Warren and Sanders on the they'regoing to take away the private insurance.(17)
回到沃伦和桑德斯,他们将带走私人保险。

I thought Warren had a -- quite a good night,too.(18)
我以为沃伦有一个 - 非常晚安。

So the fundamental thing -- and I guess thisis common agreement -- nothing really shifted(19)
所以基本的东西 - 我想这是共同的协议 - 没有真正改变

in the debate, but things sort of solidifieda little more.(20)
在辩论中,但事情有点凝固。

And that's probably good for Joe Biden.(21)
这对Joe Biden来说可能是个好消息。

JUDY WOODRUFF: You agree.(22)
JUDY WOODRUFF:你同意。

Solidified for Joe Biden?(23)
为乔拜登凝固?

MARK SHIELDS: I don't.(24)
MARK SHIELDS:我没有。

I don't agree with David.(25)
我不同意大卫。

I think he's too glib and too...(26)
我觉得他太滑稽了......

(LAUGHTER)
MARK SHIELDS: No, Judy, somehow, since thelast two debates, the Democratic candidates(27)
MARK SHIELDS:不,朱迪,不知何故,自从上两次辩论以来,民主党候选人

discovered that there had been one Democratsince Franklin Roosevelt who twice won the(28)
发现自从富兰克林罗斯福两次赢得冠军后,就有一位民主党人

White House with over 50 percent of the vote.(29)
白宫拥有超过50%的选票。

His name was Barack Obama.(30)
他的名字叫巴拉克奥巴马。

He was the big winner last night.(31)
他是昨晚的大赢家。

All of a sudden, he became the most popularguy.(32)
突然间,他成了最受欢迎的人。

Everybody wanted a piece of Barack Obama,which worked to Joe Biden's advantage, because(33)
每个人都想要一块巴拉克·奥巴马(Barack Obama),这对乔·拜登(Joe Biden)有利,因为

Joe Biden is obviously the closest in everybody'smind, and in actuality, to Barack Obama.(34)
乔拜登显然是每个人心中最亲密的,实际上是巴拉克奥巴马。

So I thought -- I thought that, to me, wasthe most -- there wasn't a game-changer, I(35)
所以我想 - 我认为,对我来说,这是最多的 - 没有一个改变游戏规则的人,我

did not believe.(36)
不相信。

I think Elizabeth Warren set out -- she'sgot -- probably maximized your support, based(37)
我认为伊丽莎白沃伦出发了 - 她有 - 可能最大化你的支持,基于

upon her plans and ideas, which are, let'sbe frank, if a Senate will not pass with 93(38)
根据她的计划和想法,如果参议院不会通过93,那就坦白了

percent support in the country for backgroundchecks, will not pass it, the likelihood of(39)
在国家进行背景调查的百分比支持,不会通过它,可能性

passing these comprehensive, sweeping changesis remote, at best.(40)
通过这些全面,彻底的变革是最遥远的。

But, at the same time, she filled out herpersona, personal resume.(41)
但是,与此同时,她填写了她的个人简历。

She's been all message and little messenger.(42)
她一直都是消息和小信使。

I thought her messenger part was filled inlast night very well.(43)
昨晚我觉得她的使者部分很好。

Bernie Sanders is all message and not messenger.(44)
伯尼桑德斯是所有信息,而不是信使。

I don't argue with David in his assessmentof who did well.(45)
在评估谁做得好的时候,我不和大卫争辩。

I thought Pete Buttigieg...(46)
我以为Pete Buttigieg ......

JUDY WOODRUFF: And who did you think did well?(47)
JUDY WOODRUFF:你认为谁做得好?

MARK SHIELDS: I thought Biden had a good night,in the sense that he went in as the leader(48)
MARK SHIELDS:我认为拜登度过了一个美好的夜晚,因为他作为领导者进入了

and came out as the leader, with wobbly moments.(49)
并以摇摆不定的时刻出现在领导者身上。

He's not -- he's not somebody who's goingto let your guard down at all times.(50)
他不是 - 他不是一个在任何时候都会放松警惕的人。

I do think that Buttigieg had a good night.(51)
我确实认为Buttigieg度过了一个美好的夜晚。

He is as disciplined and as thoughtful andas coherent as anybody.(52)
他像任何人一样有纪律,有思想,有条理。

In his answer on national security, he usedhis credential as a military person, I thought,(53)
在他关于国家安全的回答中,他用他的证书作为军人,我想,

the most thoughtfully.(54)
最有思想的。

I thought the Democrats were pretty shallowon national security.(55)
我认为民主党在国家安全问题上非常浅薄。

And I thought Buttigieg, on his argument thatthere should be a re-upping every three years(56)
我认为Buttigieg,他的论点是应该每三年重新开一次

of an authorization of military -- use ofmilitary force by the Congress -- the Congress(57)
军事授权 - 国会使用武力 - 国会

has been missing in action for 18 years ingoing to war.(58)
在战争中已经失踪了18年。

DAVID BROOKS: I would say Mark's referenceto Obama reminds me of the where the party's(59)
大卫布鲁克斯:我会说马克提到奥巴马让我想起了党的所在地

center of ideological gravity is.(60)
意识形态引力的中心是。

I think some of the earlier debates, Obamaand sort of that kind of Democrat was seen(61)
我认为早些时候的一些辩论,奥巴马和那种民主党人都被看作了

as complicit in the status quo, and thereforethat all had to be torn down.(62)
作为现状的同谋,因此所有人都必须被拆除。

MARK SHIELDS: Yes.(63)
MARK SHIELDS:是的。

DAVID BROOKS: And now Obama is seen, well,no, he's a very progressive guy, but not as(64)
大卫布鲁克斯:现在看到奥巴马,好吧,不,他是一个非常进步的人,但不是

progressive as the Sanders-Warren wing.(65)
作为桑德斯 - 沃伦翼的进步。

And so what you saw was a bit of resurgenceof the normal progressive center.(66)
所以你看到的是正常进步中心的一些复苏。

And Biden's poll support suggests that's areal thing, in part because a lot of African-American(67)
拜登的民意支持表明这是一个真实的东西,部分原因是因为很多非洲裔美国人

voters are not quite as progressive on someissues as the Warren-Sanders wing, and they're(68)
选民在某些问题上并不像沃伦 - 桑德斯的选手那样进步,他们也是如此

sticking with Biden.(69)
坚持拜登。

And so you saw the Klobuchars, the Buttigiegsbegin to hit back on -- especially on this(70)
所以你看到了Klobuchars,Buttigiegs开始回击 - 尤其是在这方面

health care issue, where they said, you'relimiting people's choices.(71)
医疗保健问题,他们说,你限制了人们的选择。

You want to put everybody into one system.(72)
你想把每个人都放在一个系统中。

And then the second dynamic is that, sometimes,people on the -- on the left, if we want to(73)
然后第二个动态是,有时,如果我们愿意的话,左边的人就是

put it that way, hit Biden in ways that attractsympathy for Biden.(74)
就是这样,用拜登的方式击中拜登。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Ah.(75)
JUDY WOODRUFF:啊。

DAVID BROOKS: And that -- we saw that withthe Castro exchange.(76)
大卫布鲁克斯:那 - 我们在卡斯特罗交流中看到了这一点。

We saw it with the protesters late in thedebate, when Biden was talking about his late(77)
我们在辩论的后期与抗议者一起看到了这一点,当时拜登正在谈论他的迟到

wife.(78)
妻子。

And, sometimes, some of the attacks becomeso vitriolic, people say, wait, I like Joe(79)
并且,有时候,一些攻击变得如此尖刻,人们说,等等,我喜欢乔

Biden.(80)
拜登。

And it redounds to his benefit.(81)
这让他受益匪浅。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Is...(82)
JUDY WOODRUFF:是......

(CROSSTALK)
JUDY WOODRUFF: Go ahead.(83)
JUDY WOODRUFF:继续吧。

Yes.(84)
是。

MARK SHIELDS: There's a reservoir of goodfeeling for Joe Biden.(85)
MARK SHIELDS:Joe Biden有一种很好的感觉。

And I think we saw that among Democrats lastnight.(86)
我想我们昨晚在民主党人中看到了这一点。

Castro was on everybody's short list for vicepresident, until he wasn't.(87)
卡斯特罗在副总统的每个人的短名单上,直到他没有。

And he, I think...(88)
他,我想......

JUDY WOODRUFF: You think last night dis...(89)
JUDY WOODRUFF:你觉得昨晚失败了......

MARK SHIELDS: I think he was the queen ofmean.(90)
MARK SHIELDS:我认为他是卑鄙的女王。

He was Leona Helmsley of the Democrats.(91)
他是民主党人Leona Helmsley。

I mean, that was that a...(92)
我的意思是,那是......

JUDY WOODRUFF: Whoa.(93)
JUDY WOODRUFF:哇。

MARK SHIELDS: It was really -- I mean, hedidn't just -- it wasn't just a throwaway(94)
MARK SHIELDS:真的 - 我的意思是,他不仅仅是 - 它不仅仅是一次性的

line.(95)
线。

He came back and repeated it twice to makesure you got it.(96)
他回来后重复了两次,以确保你得到它。

JUDY WOODRUFF: He said it wasn't personal.(97)
JUDY WOODRUFF:他说这不是个人的。

But...(98)
但...

MARK SHIELDS: It wasn't personal?(99)
MARK SHIELDS:这不是个人的吗?

Who was he talking about?(100)
他在说谁?

I'm sorry.(101)
对不起。

Was he talking -- missing -- did I miss somebodyin this?(102)
他在说话 - 失踪 - 我是否想念这个人?

He was talking about the institution?(103)
他在谈论这个机构?

So, no, that just -- that did not work.(104)
所以,不,那只是 - 那不起作用。

But the one organic moment of real humor inthe whole evening was Cory Booker, when he(105)
但整个晚上真正幽默的一个有机时刻是科里·布克,当时他

said, I'm going to -- my answer is no.(106)
说,我要 - 我的答案是否定的。

He was talking about he was going to imposehis vegan taste upon beef-eating Texas, and(107)
他正在谈论他将把他的素食主义者的味道强加给吃牛肉的德克萨斯州

he said no.(108)
他说不。

And I will translate that into Spanish.(109)
我会把它翻译成西班牙语。

No.(110)
没有。

(LAUGHTER)
MARK SHIELDS: I mean, that -- it was good.(111)
MARK SHIELDS:我的意思是,那很好。

I mean, Amy Klobuchar had some good lines,but they were good lines.(112)
我的意思是,Amy Klobuchar有一些好的台词,但他们的线条很好。

DAVID BROOKS: Right.(113)
大卫布鲁克斯:对。

And his was organic, and I give him creditfor that.(114)
他是有机的,我为此赞不绝口。

But, somehow, it just doesn't come togetherfor Cory Booker yet.(115)
但是,不知何故,它还没有为Cory Booker聚集在一起。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Another piece of politics thisweek, just quickly, David, was that makeup(116)
JUDY WOODRUFF:本周的另一个政治事件,就是很快,David,就是化妆

race in North Carolina, the Ninth CongressionalDistrict, a do-over.(117)
北卡罗来纳州,第九届国会区的比赛,一场比赛。

The Republicans won, they held on, but bya much narrower margin than what we saw President(118)
共和党人赢了,他们坚持了下来,但比我们看到总统的边际要窄得多

Trump take that district in 2016.(119)
特朗普在2016年占领了该区。

Is there a message here for Republicans andDemocrats?(120)
这里有共和党人和民主党人的消息吗?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I mean, it could be thatthere's a message.(121)
大卫布鲁克斯:是的,我的意思是,可能有消息。

And it was Trump won it by 12, and then theynow carried it by two, so that's not a good(122)
特朗普在12岁时赢了它,然后他们现在把它拿到了两个,所以这不是一件好事

thing.(123)
事情。

But my bias is that we tend to cover localraces with a strictly national perspective,(124)
但我的偏见是,我们倾向于以严格的国家视角报道当地的比赛,

and that we see it only as about Donald Trump.(125)
而且我们只看到唐纳德特朗普。

But the Republican Party behaved pretty disgracefullyin this race in 2018, with corruption and(126)
但共和党在2018年的这场竞选中表现得相当不光彩,腐败和腐败

all this stuff, which is why we had to havea do-over.(127)
所有这些东西,这就是为什么我们不得不做一个重做。

And so it could have been in part also justpersonal sickness with the Republican Party.(128)
因此,它可能部分也只是与共和党的个人疾病。

And McCready, who was the Democrat, did notdo -- he did worse in rural areas than he(129)
和民主党人麦克雷德没有做过 - 他在农村地区比他做得更差

did in the first version of this election.(130)
在这次选举的第一个版本中做了。

And that highlights the core problems forDemocrats in places like that, which is, they(131)
这凸显了民主党在这类地方的核心问题,即他们

have got to get out of their core and startwinning over people in the more rural areas.(132)
必须摆脱他们的核心,开始赢得更多农村地区的人们。

And they're still not quite able to do that.(133)
他们仍然无法做到这一点。

And McCready was a very good centrist candidate,good for that district.(134)
McCready是一位非常优秀的中间派候选人,对该地区有利。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Some bleeding among Republicans,for Republicans, Mark, in the suburbs around(135)
JUDY WOODRUFF:共和党人中有一些流血事件,共和党人,马克,周围的郊区

Charlotte.(136)
夏洛特。

MARK SHIELDS: Big.(137)
MARK SHIELDS:大。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And so is that something -- Imean, is David right that this is more local,(138)
JUDY WOODRUFF:那是一件事 - 我的意思是,大卫是对的,这是更本地的,

it's different because it was a congressionalrace, or is that something Republicans nationally(139)
这是不同的,因为它是一场国会竞选,或者是共和党人的全国性竞选

should worry about?(140)
应该担心吗?

MARK SHIELDS: Republicans have to worry aboutit.(141)
MARK SHIELDS:共和党人不得不担心。

We're going to see it this fall in Virginia,where the legislature is being elected in(142)
今年秋天我们将在弗吉尼亚州看到它,立法机构正在当选

a statewide election.(143)
全州选举。

Judy, the -- Mecklenburg County, which isthe heart and soul of the Republican greater(144)
朱迪,梅克伦堡县,是共和党人的心脏和灵魂

Charlotte area, 13 percent McCready won by.(145)
夏洛特地区,13%的McCready赢得了胜利。

David's absolutely right that the Democrats-- these are historically Democratic areas.(146)
大卫绝对是民主党人 - 这些都是历史上的民主党。

Take Robeson County.(147)
以罗伯逊县为例。

Barack Obama got 58 percent one time, 57 percentanother time.(148)
巴拉克奥巴马一次获得58%,另一次获得57%。

John Kerry carried it.(149)
约翰克里带着它。

This is where Donald Trump actually carriedit over Hillary Clinton.(150)
这就是唐纳德特朗普实际上把它带到了希拉里克林顿的地方。

And those conversions, if you will, thosewhite rural Democrats left the Democratic(151)
那些转变,如果你愿意,那些白人农村民主党人离开了民主党

Party.(152)
派对。

They barely broke for McCready.(153)
他们几乎没有为McCready打破。

I mean, he should have carried that countybig on Tuesday for the Democrat.(154)
我的意思是,他应该在星期二为民主党人带来这个县。

He didn't.(155)
他没有。

I think Republicans have a big suburban problem.(156)
我认为共和党人有一个很大的郊区问题。

Democrats have that white rural problem, andit's real.(157)
民主党人有白人农村问题,这是真的。

But they have voted Democratic in the past.(158)
但他们过去曾投票选民主党。

So Democrats can't dismiss it and say, oh,they're all racists, they're all narrow-minded.(159)
所以民主党人不能解雇它,并说,哦,他们都是种族主义者,他们都是狭隘的。

They voted for Barack Obama in that county,Robeson County.(160)
他们投票支持该县罗伯逊县的巴拉克奥巴马。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Let me ask you about what happenedat the White House this week.(161)
JUDY WOODRUFF:让我问一下本周在白宫发生的事情。

David, the president has parted ways withyet another national security adviser, representing(162)
总统大卫与另一位国家安全顾问分道扬and

just the latest sign of a lot of turmoil inhis foreign policy, national security staff.(163)
这是他的外交政策中国家安全人员大量动荡的最新迹象。

Is this just the typical Washington turnover?(164)
这只是典型的华盛顿营业额吗?

Or is this something the American people shouldbe worried about?(165)
或者这是美国人应该担心的事情?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, the Trump administration,it's always the typical Washington thing.(166)
大卫布鲁克斯:是的,特朗普政府,它总是华盛顿的典型事情。

(LAUGHTER)
DAVID BROOKS: Now, it's -- I mean, in theone sense, you sort of give Bolton, John Bolton,(167)
大卫布鲁克斯:现在,这是 - 我的意思是,从某种意义上说,你有点像博尔顿,约翰博尔顿,

some credit, that he did stop some prettybad things.(168)
一些功劳,他确实阻止了一些非常糟糕的事情。

He seems to have dissuaded Trump from meetingwith the Taliban in Camp David and doing a(169)
他似乎已经劝阻特朗普在戴维营与塔利班会面并做了一件事

deal with North Korea.(170)
与朝鲜打交道。

Trump wanted to do deals, so he could havenice headlines and a good TV show.(171)
特朗普想做交易,所以他可以有很好的头条新闻和一个好的电视节目。

And Bolton seems to be among those who slowedhim down on that.(172)
而博尔顿似乎也是那些让他放慢脚步的人之一。

So he gets some credit.(173)
所以他获得了一些荣誉。

The problem -- I think the larger problemis that the NSC is supposed to be running(174)
问题 - 我认为更大的问题是NSC应该运行

the process.(175)
这个过程。

There are lots of different players in theforeign policy game, the State Department,(176)
外交政策游戏中有很多不同的参与者,国务院,

the Defense Department, the Intelligence Agency.(177)
国防部,情报局。

And the NSC is supposed to be running theprocess to coordinate all this information,(178)
并且NSC应该运行协调所有这些信息的过程,

and so the president can make a decision.(179)
所以总统可以做出决定。

But, with Trump, there's no process.(180)
但是,对于特朗普来说,没有任何过程。

And so there are supposed to be meeting, principalsmeetings, undersecretary meetings, all these(181)
所以这些应该是会议,校长会议,副部长会议

different layers of meetings.(182)
不同层次的会议。

And, apparently, that's not happening.(183)
显然,这种情况并没有发生。

And so we have Donald Trump conducting foreignpolicy in a room.(184)
所以我们让唐纳德特朗普在一个房间里执行外交政策。

We have got 800,000 people in the intelligencecommunity, two million people in the military,(185)
我们在情报界有80万人,军队有200万人,

lord knows how many in the State Department,all of whom are kind of irrelevant right now,(186)
上帝知道国务院有多少人,现在所有人都是无关紧要的,

because Donald Trump is sitting there watchingCNN or whatever he's watching and making foreign(187)
因为唐纳德特朗普正坐在那里看CNN或者他正在观看和制作外国的任何东西

policy.(188)
政策。

And I think that's the scary thing.(189)
而且我认为那是可怕的事情。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Scary, Mark?(190)
JUDY WOODRUFF:可怕,马克?

MARK SHIELDS: Scary, Judy.(191)
MARK SHIELDS:可怕,朱迪。

John Bolton never met a foreign engagementthat he didn't like, in my experience.(192)
根据我的经验,约翰博尔顿从未见过他不喜欢的外国交往。

I mean, he loved military confrontation, exceptwhen his number came up in the draft, and(193)
我的意思是,他喜欢军事对抗,除非他的号码出现在选秀中,并且

he says, I confess I think the war in SouthVietnam -- in Vietnam is not winnable, and(194)
他说,我承认我认为南越的战争 - 在越南是不可能的,而且

he has -- so he confessed he had no desireto fight in it, which -- being an armchair(195)
他有 - 所以他承认他不想在其中作斗争 - 这是一把扶手椅

commando you think might inhibit him fromsending other people's children into war.(196)
你认为突击队可能会阻止他让其他人的孩子参战。

But watching the shoot-down or the face-offbetween him and Donald Trump was reminded(197)
但是他还想起了他和唐纳德特朗普之间的击球或对峙

of like being an agnostic at the footballgame between Southern Methodist and Notre(198)
在南卫理公会和巴黎圣母院之间的足球比赛中,他们是不可知论者

Dame.(199)
圣母院。

(LAUGHTER)
MARK SHIELDS: I mean, I really -- I wasn'trooting for either side.(200)
MARK SHIELDS:我的意思是,我真的 - 我不是支持任何一方。

I mean, he was not a yes-man.(201)
我的意思是,他不是一个肯定的人。

Trump wants a yes-man.(202)
特朗普想要一个肯定的人。

And he is not -- he was not a yes-man.(203)
他不是 - 他不是一个肯定的人。

And...(204)
和...

JUDY WOODRUFF: Are you saying that's whatSecretary of State Pompeo...(205)
JUDY WOODRUFF:你是说那是国务卿Pompeo ......

MARK SHIELDS: I think Secretary Pompeo hasplayed Donald Trump like a virtuoso plays(206)
MARK SHIELDS:我认为Pompeo局长扮演唐纳德特朗普就像是一场演奏家

a Stradivarius, I mean, all the way to thepoint where Donald Trump gave him credit for(207)
一个斯特拉迪瓦里,我的意思是,一直到唐纳德特朗普给予他信任的地步

making the decision not to wear two hats,as Kissinger, to be both national security(208)
决定不戴两顶帽子,就像基辛格一样,都是国家安全

adviser and secretary of state.(209)
顾问和国务卿。

So he's figured it out, just as Nikki Haleyfigured it out.(210)
所以他明白了,就像Nikki Haley想出来的那样。

(CROSSTALK)
JUDY WOODRUFF: Former U.N. ambassador.(211)
JUDY WOODRUFF:前联合国大使。

MARK SHIELDS: Former U.N. ambassador.(212)
MARK SHIELDS:前联合国大使。

So, I'm just not -- I'm not going to missJohn Bolton.(213)
所以,我不是 - 我不会想念John Bolton。

I think he probably did have a sobering influenceat certain junctures, as David points out.(214)
正如大卫指出的那样,我认为他可能确实在某些关键时刻产生了一种清醒的影响。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Last thing quickly I want toask you both about is the prospect for any(215)
JUDY WOODRUFF:最后我很快就想问你们两个人的前景是什么

sort of legislation on guns.(216)
关于枪支的立法。

All these mass shootings, the Democrats arenow talking about it.(217)
所有这些大规模枪击事件,民主党人现在正在谈论它。

They're pushing legislation.(218)
他们正在推动立法。

You both talked about it came up in the debatelast night.(219)
你们昨晚在辩论中谈到了它。

David, the Democrats are pushing it.(220)
大卫,民主党人正在推动它。

Mitch McConnell, the majority leader in theSenate, is saying, I'm not going to do this(221)
参议院多数党领袖米奇麦康奈尔说,我不打算这样做

until I know President Trump is going to signsomething.(222)
直到我知道特朗普总统将签署一些东西。

What does it look like right now?(223)
它现在看起来像什么?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I think the smart thingto do would be to -- Marco Rubio and Susan(224)
大卫布鲁克斯:是的,我认为聪明的做法是 - 马可鲁比奥和苏珊

Collins and Angus King and a few other senatorshave a red flag bill that would -- that would(225)
科林斯和安格斯·金以及其他一些参议员都有一个红旗法案,那就是

withhold weapons to people who have set offpsychological red flags.(226)
向已经引发心理危险的人们扣留武器。

And it may seem modest compared to what alot of people are calling for, that they're(227)
与许多人所要求的相比,它看起来可能是适度的

going to -- Beto is going to seize everybody'sassault weapons.(228)
去 - 贝托将抓住每个人的攻击武器。

But I think it's important to at least crackthe wall of inaction.(229)
但我认为至少要打破不作为的墙是很重要的。

And if you get one thing done, then maybethe NRA's wall has been cracked a little and(230)
如果你完成了一件事,那么也许NRA的墙已经破了一点

you get other things done down the line.(231)
你还可以完成其他任务。

I'm not sure the Democrats see it that way.(232)
我不确定民主党人是这么看的。

They may want to have the issue and have somebig thing down the line.(233)
他们可能想要解决问题并且有一些重要的事情要做。

Donald Trump has said he'd be open for backgroundchecks.(234)
唐纳德特朗普表示他将接受背景调查。

I'm dubious he will actually do it.(235)
我很怀疑他真的会这样做。

Ted Cruz came out today and said, don't weakenthe Republican base.(236)
特德克鲁兹今天出来说,不要削弱共和党基地。

You don't want to do that.(237)
你不想那样做。

And I wouldn't be surprised if that argumentwon.(238)
如果这个论点赢了,我也不会感到惊讶。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Fifteen seconds.(239)
JUDY WOODRUFF:十五秒钟。

MARK SHIELDS: Judy, this is an issue thathas changed.(240)
MARK SHIELDS:朱迪,这个问题已经发生了变化。

It's been the third rail of American politics.(241)
这是美国政治的第三条轨道。

You can't go near it.(242)
你不能靠近它。

Guns has changed to violence.(243)
枪支已变为暴力。

I think we saw it with 135 CEOs coming out.(244)
我想我们看到135位CEO出来了。

I think there's a -- I think there's a seachange.(245)
我认为有一个 - 我认为有一个大变革。

I think Beto O'Rourke became the public witnessand the public source last night in a very(246)
我认为Beto O'Rourke昨晚成为公众见证人和公众来源

large way.(247)
很大的方式。

I think America is changing on guns.(248)
我认为美国正在改变枪支。

DAVID BROOKS: Mark Shields, David Brooks,thank you.(249)
大卫布鲁克斯:马克希尔兹,大卫布鲁克斯,谢谢你。


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