Tamara Keith and Shawna Thomas on 2020 Democrats in Iowa, Trump's conspiracy tweets
2019-08-12 00:00:00


AMNA NAWAZ: We’re here now for our "Politics Monday"segment.(1)
AMNA NAWAZ:我们现在正在参加我们的“Politics Monday”活动。

I’m joined by Shawna Thomas and Tamara Keith.(2)
Shawna Thomas和Tamara Keith加入了我的行列。

Thanks to you both for being here.(3)
多亏你们两个都在这里。

SHAWNA THOMAS, VICE NEWS: Good with you.(4)
SHAWNA THOMAS,VICE NEWS:很高兴和你在一起。

AMNA NAWAZ: So, no fried food, no butter sculptures,but a lot of politics to talk about.(5)
AMNA NAWAZ:所以,没有油炸食品,没有黄油雕塑,但谈论很多政治。

SHAWNA THOMAS: Yes.(6)
SHAWNA THOMAS:是的。

AMNA NAWAZ: The Iowa state fair, Tam, is supposedto be an opportunity for the candidates to(7)
AMNA NAWAZ:爱荷华州的国家博览会,谭,应该是候选人的机会

breakaway from the pack, take a chance to shine(8)
脱离背包,抓住机会闪耀

if they can or kind of continue in the middleand fight for air.(9)
如果他们可以或继续在中间并争取空气。

Did anyone stand out to you over the lastfew days?(10)
在过去的几天里有没有人对你很敏感?

TAMARA KEITH, NPR: So, I was there.(11)
TAMARA KEITH,NPR:所以,我在那里。

I was technically on vacation.(12)
我在技术上度假。

I did eat fried foods but also -- Ican’t turn off --(13)
我确实吃了油炸食品但是 - 我无法关闭 -

SHAWNA THOMAS: You played political tourist.(14)
SHAWNA THOMAS:你扮演了政治游客。

TAMARA KEITH: I played political tourist.(15)
TAMARA KEITH:我扮演政治游客。

You can't turn it off.(16)
你不能把它关掉。

SHAWNA THOMAS: And so, what I saw is thatcandidates like Kamala Harris and Elizabeth(17)
SHAWNA THOMAS:所以,我看到的是像Kamala Harris和Elizabeth这样的候选人

Warrenwho are not at the very top in the polls drew(18)
沃伦在民意调查中并不是最顶尖的

very large crowds of very interested peoplewho came early(19)
非常大的一群非常感兴趣的人来得早

and stayed late and watched their speeches.(20)
并且迟到了,看了他们的演讲。

In fact, for Warren, when she was speakingat the soap box,(21)
事实上,对于沃伦来说,当她在肥皂盒里说话的时候,

you actually couldn't walk past the entiregrand passageway or whatever it's called.(22)
你实际上无法走过整个大通道或其他所谓的通道。

The big road in themiddle of the fairgrounds was just completely(23)
在展览中心的大路完全是

congested with people who had stopped to watchher speak.(24)
与那些停下来看她说话的人挤在一起。

And so, that -- and that sort of reflectswhat you've seen in the polls, which is that(25)
所以,那就是 - 那种反映了你在民意调查中所看到的,就是这样

Elizabeth Warren, youknow, taking as many selfies as she has to(26)
你知道,伊丽莎白沃伦正在采取尽可能多的自拍

take at every event, has begun to sort ofnotch things up in Iowa,(27)
在每一个活动中,爱荷华州的事情开始变得微不足道,

I believe, in the latest Iowa poll.(28)
我相信,在最新的爱荷华州民意调查中。

She's in seconds behind Joe Biden.(29)
她在几秒钟之后落后于乔拜登。

AMNA NAWAZ: Shawna, every selfie matters atthis stage but it’s worth reminding people(30)
AMNA NAWAZ:Shawna,在这个阶段,每个自拍都很重要,但值得提醒人们

still over sixmonths away before anyone in Iowa casts a(31)
距离爱荷华州的任何人都有六个多月的时间

vote.(32)
投票。

How much does this matter, this cycle?(33)
这有多重要,这个循环?

SHAWNA THOMAS: I mean, how much does the Iowastate fair matter in any cycle?(34)
SHAWNA THOMAS:我的意思是,在任何一个周期中,爱荷华州的公平事态有多大?

AMNA NAWAZ: Ever, yes.(35)
AMNA NAWAZ:永远,是的。

SHAWNA THOMAS: The thing is, what our correspondenton Vice News was telling me and she was out(36)
SHAWNA THOMAS:问题是,我们的副新闻记者告诉我她出去了

there as well was there was so much mediathere that she was confused as to whether(37)
那里有那么多的媒体,她对是否是这样感到困惑

the candidates wereactually able to speak to Iowans one on one.(38)
候选人实际上能够一对一地与爱荷华州交谈。

And so, yes, you have “The Des Moines Register”soapbox.(39)
所以,是的,你有“Des Moines Register”肥皂盒。

We all enjoy seeing that.(40)
我们都很高兴看到这一点。

It’s a good way toget for a candidate to get their stump speech(41)
这是让候选人获得他们的残余演讲的好方法

out there.(42)
在那里。

But also, the point of the Iowa state fairin visiting(43)
而且,爱荷华州参观的重点

sort of historically has been to try to havethose one-on-one interactions with Iowans.(44)
历史上一直试图与爱荷华州进行一对一的互动。

AMNA NAWAZ: Right.(45)
AMNA NAWAZ:对。

SHAWNA THOMAS: And the sort of like, and thething is, you know, what one guy told us was(46)
SHAWNA THOMAS:有点像,而且事情是,你知道,一个人告诉我们的是什么

like, allIowans are here.(47)
比如,所有的爱荷华人都在这里。

It's not just a Democratic Party event.(48)
这不仅仅是民主党的事件。

It’s not some special interest event.(49)
这不是一些特殊的兴趣活动。

You could runinto anyone, but it's also kind of hard apparently(50)
你可能遇到任何人,但显然也很难

to do with the amount of media that’s there.(51)
与那里的媒体数量有关。

But hopefully, some of them took advantageof having conversations with people who would(52)
但希望他们中的一些人利用与那些愿意与人交谈的优势

notnecessarily be able to see them or want them(53)
不一定能看到他们或想要他们

to see them like at a general Democratic eventor something(54)
在民主党的一般事件或其他事情上看到他​​们

like that.(55)
像那样。

AMNA NAWAZ: So, they want to get as much asattention as they can.(56)
AMNA NAWAZ:所以,他们希望得到尽可能多的关注。

SHAWNA THOMAS: Yes.(57)
SHAWNA THOMAS:是的。

AMNA NAWAZ: Not all attention is good attention,though.(58)
AMNA NAWAZ:不过,并非所有注意力都得到了很好的关注。

One of the story lines we’ve been talkingabout is how former Vice President Joe Biden(59)
我们一直在谈论的故事线之一是前副总统乔拜登

has done so far in some of these events.(60)
到目前为止,其中一些活动已经完成。

I want to play for you, guys, just a coupleof quick sound bytes.(61)
我想为你们玩,伙计们,只需几个快速的声音字节。

They’re from two different events.(62)
他们来自两个不同的事件。

Onefrom Thursday, one from Saturday, but these(63)
一个星期四,一个星期六,但这些

are the kinds of comments from Mr. Biden thatare getting(64)
是拜登先生的评论

attention right now.(65)
现在关注。

Take a listen.(66)
听一听

We’re here now for our "Politics Monday"segment.(67)
我们现在在这里参加我们的“政治星期一”部分。

I’m joined by Shawna Thomas and Tamara Keith.(68)
Shawna Thomas和Tamara Keith加入了我的行列。

Thanks to you both for being here.(69)
多亏你们两个都在这里。

(CROSSTALK)
SHAWNA THOMAS, VICE NEWS: Good with you.(70)
SHAWNA THOMAS,VICE NEWS:很高兴和你在一起。

AMNA NAWAZ: So, no fried food, no butter sculptures,but a lot of politics to talk about.(71)
AMNA NAWAZ:所以,没有油炸食品,没有黄油雕塑,但谈论很多政治。

SHAWNA THOMAS: Yes.(72)
SHAWNA THOMAS:是的。

AMNA NAWAZ: The Iowa state fair, Tam, is supposedto be an opportunity for the candidates to(73)
AMNA NAWAZ:爱荷华州的国家博览会,谭,应该是候选人的机会

breakaway from the pack, take a chance to shine(74)
脱离背包,抓住机会闪耀

if they can or kind of continue in the middleand fight for air.(75)
如果他们可以或继续在中间并争取空气。

Did anyone stand out to you over the lastfew days?(76)
在过去的几天里有没有人对你很敏感?

TAMARA KEITH, NPR: So, I was there.(77)
TAMARA KEITH,NPR:所以,我在那里。

I was technically on vacation.(78)
我在技术上度假。

I did eat fried foods but also -- Ican’t turn off --(79)
我确实吃了油炸食品但是 - 我无法关闭 -

SHAWNA THOMAS: You played political tourist.(80)
SHAWNA THOMAS:你扮演了政治游客。

TAMARA KEITH: I played political tourist.(81)
TAMARA KEITH:我扮演政治游客。

You can't turn it off.(82)
你不能把它关掉。

SHAWNA THOMAS: And so, what I saw is thatcandidates like Kamala Harris and Elizabeth(83)
SHAWNA THOMAS:所以,我看到的是像Kamala Harris和Elizabeth这样的候选人

Warrenwho are not at the very top in the polls drew(84)
沃伦在民意调查中并不是最顶尖的

very large crowds of very interested peoplewho came early(85)
非常大的一群非常感兴趣的人来得早

and stayed late and watched their speeches.(86)
并且迟到了,看了他们的演讲。

In fact, for Warren, when she was speakingat the soap box,(87)
事实上,对于沃伦来说,当她在肥皂盒里说话的时候,

you actually couldn't walk past the entiregrand passageway or whatever it's called.(88)
你实际上无法走过整个大通道或其他所谓的通道。

The big road in themiddle of the fairgrounds was just completely(89)
在展览中心的大路完全是

congested with people who had stopped to watchher speak.(90)
与那些停下来看她说话的人挤在一起。

And so, that -- and that sort of reflectswhat you've seen in the polls, which is that(91)
所以,那就是 - 那种反映了你在民意调查中所看到的,就是这样

Elizabeth Warren, youknow, taking as many selfies as she has to(92)
你知道,伊丽莎白沃伦正在采取尽可能多的自拍

take at every event, has begun to sort ofnotch things up in Iowa,(93)
在每一个活动中,爱荷华州的事情开始变得微不足道,

I believe, in the latest Iowa poll.(94)
我相信,在最新的爱荷华州民意调查中。

She's in seconds behind Joe Biden.(95)
她在几秒钟之后落后于乔拜登。

AMNA NAWAZ: Shawna, every selfie matters atthis stage but it’s worth reminding people(96)
AMNA NAWAZ:Shawna,在这个阶段,每个自拍都很重要,但值得提醒人们

still over sixmonths away before anyone in Iowa casts a(97)
距离爱荷华州的任何人都有六个多月的时间

vote.(98)
投票。

How much does this matter, this cycle?(99)
这有多重要,这个循环?

SHAWNA THOMAS: I mean, how much does the Iowastate fair matter in any cycle?(100)
SHAWNA THOMAS:我的意思是,在任何一个周期中,爱荷华州的公平事态有多大?

AMNA NAWAZ: Ever, yes.(101)
AMNA NAWAZ:永远,是的。

SHAWNA THOMAS: The thing is, what our correspondenton Vice News was telling me and she was out(102)
SHAWNA THOMAS:问题是,我们的副新闻记者告诉我她出去了

there as well was there was so much mediathere that she was confused as to whether(103)
那里有那么多的媒体,她对是否是这样感到困惑

the candidates wereactually able to speak to Iowans one on one.(104)
候选人实际上能够一对一地与爱荷华州交谈。

And so, yes, you have “The Des Moines Register”soapbox.(105)
所以,是的,你有“Des Moines Register”肥皂盒。

We all enjoy seeing that.(106)
我们都很高兴看到这一点。

It’s a good way toget for a candidate to get their stump speech(107)
这是让候选人获得他们的残余演讲的好方法

out there.(108)
在那里。

But also, the point of the Iowa state fairin visiting(109)
而且,爱荷华州参观的重点

sort of historically has been to try to havethose one-on-one interactions with Iowans.(110)
历史上一直试图与爱荷华州进行一对一的互动。

AMNA NAWAZ: Right.(111)
AMNA NAWAZ:对。

SHAWNA THOMAS: And the sort of like, and thething is, you know, what one guy told us was(112)
SHAWNA THOMAS:有点像,而且事情是,你知道,一个人告诉我们的是什么

like, allIowans are here.(113)
比如,所有的爱荷华人都在这里。

It's not just a Democratic Party event.(114)
这不仅仅是民主党的事件。

It’s not some special interest event.(115)
这不是一些特殊的兴趣活动。

You could runinto anyone, but it's also kind of hard apparently(116)
你可能遇到任何人,但显然也很难

to do with the amount of media that’s there.(117)
与那里的媒体数量有关。

But hopefully, some of them took advantageof having conversations with people who would(118)
但希望他们中的一些人利用与那些愿意与人交谈的优势

notnecessarily be able to see them or want them(119)
不一定能看到他们或想要他们

to see them like at a general Democratic eventor something(120)
在民主党的一般事件或其他事情上看到他​​们

like that.(121)
像那样。

AMNA NAWAZ: So, they want to get as much asattention as they can.(122)
AMNA NAWAZ:所以,他们希望得到尽可能多的关注。

SHAWNA THOMAS: Yes.(123)
SHAWNA THOMAS:是的。

AMNA NAWAZ: Not all attention is good attention,though.(124)
AMNA NAWAZ:不过,并非所有注意力都得到了很好的关注。

One of the story lines we’ve been talkingabout is how former Vice President Joe Biden(125)
我们一直在谈论的故事线之一是前副总统乔拜登

has done so far in some of these events.(126)
到目前为止,其中一些活动已经完成。

I want to play for you, guys, just a coupleof quick sound bytes.(127)
我想为你们玩,伙计们,只需几个快速的声音字节。

They’re from two different events.(128)
他们来自两个不同的事件。

Onefrom Thursday, one from Saturday, but these(129)
一个星期四,一个星期六,但这些

are the kinds of comments from Mr. Biden thatare getting(130)
是拜登先生的评论

attention right now.(131)
现在关注。

Take a listen.(132)
听一听

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)JOE BIDEN: Poor kids are just as bright and
just as talented as white kids, wealthy kids,black kids, Asian(133)
就像白人孩子,富裕的孩子,黑人孩子,亚洲人一样才华横溢

kids.(134)
孩子们。

(APPLAUSE)
JOE BIDEN: I watched what happened to thosekids from Parkland came up to see me when(135)
JOE BIDEN:我看到Parkland的孩子们什么时候来看我

I was vicepresident.(136)
我是副总统。

(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMNA NAWAZ: So, you know, Tam, we're callingthese as gaffes in this conversation, right?(137)
AMNA NAWAZ:那么,你知道吗,Tam,我们在这次谈话中称这些为失态,对吧?

Hemisspeaks.(138)
他错过了。

He corrects himself.(139)
他纠正了自己。

Sometimes he has to come back and correcthimself a little later.(140)
有时候他必须稍后再回来纠正自己。

Is it faircriticism of him right now?(141)
现在对他的批评是否公平?

TAMARA KEITH: It is Joe Biden.(142)
TAMARA KEITH:这是Joe Biden。

Joe Biden has called himself a gaffe machine.(143)
乔拜登称自己是一台失明机器。

He -- this is sort of atrademark.(144)
他 - 这是一种商标。

He does this.(145)
他这样做了。

He's done this his entire political career.(146)
他在整个政治生涯中都是这样做的。

When he announced that he was going to runfor(147)
当他宣布他要竞选时

president, that he was running for president,you knew that this was going to happen and(148)
总统,他竞选总统,你知道这将会发生

it has continued tohappen all along.(149)
它一直在继续发生。

One thing that's been sort of puzzling tome is why this weekend is the weekend that(150)
对我来说有点令人费解的一件事是为什么这个周末是周末

everyone started totalk about, well, will Joe Biden's gaffes(151)
每个人都开始谈论,好吧,乔拜登的失言

matter?(152)
物?

And I think that the way they could matteris if voters(153)
而且我认为他们可能重要的方式就是选民

decide that it's an indicator of somethinglarger, if it taps into a concern that voters(154)
如果它关注选民的担忧,那么它就是一个更大的指标

have perhaps about hisage or some other thing like that.(155)
也许关于他的年龄或其他类似的东西。

But that Joe Biden would say the wrong wordsor stumble is not new.(156)
但是,乔拜登会说错误的话或绊倒不是新的。

SHAWNA THOMAS: Yes.(157)
SHAWNA THOMAS:是的。

AMNA NAWAZ: What do you think, Shawna?(158)
AMNA NAWAZ:你觉得怎么样,Shawna?

SHAWNA THOMAS: But I think the thing is, whenhe said the wrong words and stumbled historically(159)
SHAWNA THOMAS:但我认为事情就是,当他说错话并且在历史上跌跌撞撞

when we both covered him before, it's UncleJoe.(160)
当我们两个都覆盖他之前,这是乔叔叔。

It's, like, OK, it's Joe Biden, he's great,look, whatever.(161)
就像,好吧,这是乔拜登,他很棒,看起来,无论如何。

Much like in some ways the awkward touchingand that kind of thing.(162)
很像在某些方面尴尬的触摸和那种事情。

But when you are the frontrunner for -- tobe president and everyone thinks you may actually(163)
但是当你成为总统的领跑者时,每个人都认为你可能真的

have a shot atgetting the Democratic nomination, everyone(164)
每个人都有机会获得民主党提名

is going to pay even more attention to everylittle stumble,(165)
我会更加关注每一个小小的绊脚石,

and I do think that is going to get worse.(166)
我认为情况会变得更糟。

Now, some of why this has been highlightedis Trump's team is(167)
现在,特朗普团队的一些原因是突出的

the one who sort of pushed this narrativeevent.(168)
那个推动这个叙事事件的人。

I am interested to see if like a lower tierpresidential(169)
我有兴趣看看是否像一个较低级别的总统

candidate goes along this narrative, likea one who's actually on the Democratic side,(170)
候选人跟这个叙事一样,就像一个实际上在民主党一方的人,

because, of course,President Trump is going to push this.(171)
因为,当然,特朗普总统将推动这一点。

He wants to beat Biden.(172)
他想击败拜登。

He thinks Biden is the guy to beat.(173)
他认为拜登是要击败的人。

But does -- do the Cory Bookers of the worldor does someone else start trying to talk(174)
但确实 - 做世界的Cory Bookers还是别人开始尝试说话

about Joe Biden's ageand play these gaffes or anything like that,(175)
关于乔拜登的年龄和玩这些失言或类似的东西,

does it cause Democratic infighting?(176)
它会导致民主内inf吗?

And I think that'ssomething to be more worried more about at(177)
而且我认为这更令人担心

this stage with Biden.(178)
这个阶段与拜登。

AMNA NAWAZ: You mentioned President Trump,but I want to ask you about something else.(179)
AMNA NAWAZ:你提到了特朗普总统,但我想问你一些其他问题。

Over theweekend, he retweeted a post from a comedian(180)
上周末,他转发了一位喜剧演员的帖子

linking the Clintons to the death of JeffreyEpstein, the(181)
将克林顿夫妇与杰弗里爱泼斯坦的死亡联系起来

accused sex trafficker in jail this weekend.(182)
本周末被控性侵犯者入狱。

We're not showing it here because it is aconspiracy theory.(183)
我们没有在这里展示它,因为它是一个阴谋论。

It’sbaseless.(184)
这是毫无根据的。

It traces back years, just some far rightconspiracy theories.(185)
它追溯了几年,只是一些极右翼的阴谋论。

Shawna, of all the things the president couldhave been tweeting about this weekend, why(186)
Shawna,总统可能在本周末发推文的所有事情,为什么呢

this?(187)
这个?

SHAWNA THOMAS: Because he -- I mean, I can'tget into the president's head and I can't(188)
SHAWNA THOMAS:因为他 - 我的意思是,我不能进入总统的头脑而我不能

pretend to bein the president's head, but he saw something,(189)
假装在总统的头上,但他看到了什么,

it attacked the Clintons, he is still attackingthe Clintons,(190)
它袭击了克林顿夫妇,他仍在攻击克林顿夫妇,

people still cheer “lock her up” at hisevents, at his campaign events.(191)
在他的竞选活动中,人们仍在为他的活动“锁定她”欢呼。

And, you know what?(192)
而且,你知道吗?

He pressedretweet.(193)
他按转推。

And this is just what he does.(194)
而这正是他所做的。

He has spread other conspiracy theories.(195)
他传播了其他阴谋论。

We can go all the way back toBarack Obama's birth certificate.(196)
我们可以一直回到巴拉克奥巴马的出生证明。

Now, yes, he could have been tweetings aboutother things like, hey, does the Bureau of(197)
现在,是的,他本来可以发布关于其他事情的推文,嘿,局长

Prisons havestaffing problems?(198)
监狱有人员配备问题?

What is going on there?(199)
那里发生了什么?

There are some real issues with Epstein andwill his victims be(200)
爱泼斯坦有一些真正的问题,他的受害者也会这样

able to be able to see justice, and that kindof thing.(201)
能够看到正义,以及那种事情。

But, you know, this is what the presidentlikes to do(202)
但是,你知道,这就是总统喜欢做的事情

and now we're talking about it.(203)
现在我们正在谈论它。

AMNA NAWAZ: Tammy, with 63 million Twitterfollowers, there’s -- you know, I have been(204)
AMNA NAWAZ:Tammy,有6300万推特粉丝,有 - 你知道,我一直都是

incountries where conspiracy theories and misinformation(205)
在阴谋论和错误信息的国家

campaigns are very active, it has an impact.(206)
活动非常活跃,有影响力。

Doyou worry about that here?(207)
你在这担心吗?

Is there concern?(208)
有顾虑吗?

TAMARA KEITH: We are also in a country whereconspiracy theories have been very active(209)
TAMARA KEITH:我们也是一个阴谋理论非常活跃的国家

especially inrecent years, especially with social media,(210)
特别是近年来,尤其是社交媒体,

and President Trump has at times retweetedor otherwise(211)
特朗普总统有时转推或以其他方式转发

trafficked in conspiracy theories.(212)
在阴谋论中被贩运。

So, that he's doing this now is not reallyout of character.(213)
所以,他现在这样做并不是真的不合时宜。

It's somethingthat he does.(214)
这是他做的事情。

And I think that we are in a time in thiscountry where conspiracy theories, for whatever(215)
而且我认为我们正处于这个国家的阴谋论,无论如何

reason, areparticularly sticky, and especially on the(216)
原因,特别粘,尤其是

right but not entirely on the right, alsovery much on the left(217)
对,但不是完全在右边,也在左边

conspiracy theories have taken hold.(218)
阴谋论已经扎根。

And so, this is -- this is sort of -- thisis where we are.(219)
所以,这就是 - 这就是 - 这就是我们所处的位置。

SHAWNA THOMAS: And the question really -- Imean, the larger question that comes out of(220)
SHAWNA THOMAS:这个问题真的 - 我的意思是,更大的问题来自于

thisconspiracy thing is what do we do about social(221)
这个阴谋的事情是我们如何处理社会问题

media?(222)
媒体?

And are we going to hold social media companiesaccountable for the spread of things that(223)
我们是否会让社交媒体公司对事物的传播负责

are not true?(224)
不是真的吗?

And this is something that Congress has beentalking about and they have been trying to(225)
这是国会一直在讨论的事情,他们一直在努力

tackle it, but theyhaven't done anything yet.(226)
解决它,但他们还没有做任何事情。

I think this reiterates that that conversationis really important.(227)
我认为这重申了那次谈话非常重要。

AMNA NAWAZ: Another conversation to have atanother time.(228)
AMNA NAWAZ:另一次有另一次谈话。

SHAWNA THOMAS: There will be so many.(229)
SHAWNA THOMAS:会有这么多人。

AMNA NAWAZ: Shawna Thomas of “Vice News”,Tamara Keith of NPR, thanks to you both.(230)
AMNA NAWAZ:“副新闻”的Shawna Thomas,NPR的Tamara Keith,感谢你们两位。

TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome.(231)
TAMARA KEITH:不客气。

SHAWNA THOMAS: Thanks.(232)
SHAWNA THOMAS:谢谢。

JOE BIDEN: Poor kids are just as bright andjust as talented as white kids, wealthy kids,(233)
JOE BIDEN:可怜的孩子和白人孩子,富有的孩子一样聪明,有才华

black kids, Asiankids.(234)
黑人孩子,亚洲孩子。

(APPLAUSE)JOE BIDEN: I watched what happened to those
kids from Parkland came up to see me whenI was vice(235)
当我出现恶习时,帕克兰的孩子们来看我

president.(236)
主席。

(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMNA NAWAZ: So, you know, Tam, we're callingthese as gaffes in this conversation, right?(237)
AMNA NAWAZ:那么,你知道吗,Tam,我们在这次谈话中称这些为失态,对吧?

Hemisspeaks.(238)
他错过了。

He corrects himself.(239)
他纠正了自己。

Sometimes he has to come back and correcthimself a little later.(240)
有时候他必须稍后再回来纠正自己。

Is it faircriticism of him right now?(241)
现在对他的批评是否公平?

TAMARA KEITH: It is Joe Biden.(242)
TAMARA KEITH:这是Joe Biden。

Joe Biden has called himself a gaffe machine.(243)
乔拜登称自己是一台失明机器。

He -- this is sort of atrademark.(244)
他 - 这是一种商标。

He does this.(245)
他这样做了。

He's done this his entire political career.(246)
他在整个政治生涯中都是这样做的。

When he announced that he was going to runfor(247)
当他宣布他要竞选时

president, that he was running for president,you knew that this was going to happen and(248)
总统,他竞选总统,你知道这将会发生

it has continued tohappen all along.(249)
它一直在继续发生。

One thing that's been sort of puzzling tome is why this weekend is the weekend that(250)
对我来说有点令人费解的一件事是为什么这个周末是周末

everyone started totalk about, well, will Joe Biden's gaffes(251)
每个人都开始谈论,好吧,乔拜登的失言

matter?(252)
物?

And I think that the way they could matteris if voters(253)
而且我认为他们可能重要的方式就是选民

decide that it's an indicator of somethinglarger, if it taps into a concern that voters(254)
如果它关注选民的担忧,那么它就是一个更大的指标

have perhaps about hisage or some other thing like that.(255)
也许关于他的年龄或其他类似的东西。

But that Joe Biden would say the wrong wordsor stumble is not new.(256)
但是,乔拜登会说错误的话或绊倒不是新的。

SHAWNA THOMAS: Yes.(257)
SHAWNA THOMAS:是的。

AMNA NAWAZ: What do you think, Shawna?(258)
AMNA NAWAZ:你觉得怎么样,Shawna?

SHAWNA THOMAS: But I think the thing is, whenhe said the wrong words and stumbled historically(259)
SHAWNA THOMAS:但我认为事情就是,当他说错话并且在历史上跌跌撞撞

when we both covered him before, it's UncleJoe.(260)
当我们两个都覆盖他之前,这是乔叔叔。

It's, like, OK, it's Joe Biden, he's great,look, whatever.(261)
就像,好吧,这是乔拜登,他很棒,看起来,无论如何。

Much like in some ways the awkward touchingand that kind of thing.(262)
很像在某些方面尴尬的触摸和那种事情。

But when you are the frontrunner for -- tobe president and everyone thinks you may actually(263)
但是当你成为总统的领跑者时,每个人都认为你可能真的

have a shot atgetting the Democratic nomination, everyone(264)
每个人都有机会获得民主党提名

is going to pay even more attention to everylittle stumble,(265)
我会更加关注每一个小小的绊脚石,

and I do think that is going to get worse.(266)
我认为情况会变得更糟。

Now, some of why this has been highlightedis Trump's team is(267)
现在,特朗普团队的一些原因是突出的

the one who sort of pushed this narrativeevent.(268)
那个推动这个叙事事件的人。

I am interested to see if like a lower tierpresidential(269)
我有兴趣看看是否像一个较低级别的总统

candidate goes along this narrative, likea one who's actually on the Democratic side,(270)
候选人跟这个叙事一样,就像一个实际上在民主党一方的人,

because, of course,President Trump is going to push this.(271)
因为,当然,特朗普总统将推动这一点。

He wants to beat Biden.(272)
他想击败拜登。

He thinks Biden is the guy to beat.(273)
他认为拜登是要击败的人。

But does -- do the Cory Bookers of the worldor does someone else start trying to talk(274)
但确实 - 做世界的Cory Bookers还是别人开始尝试说话

about Joe Biden's ageand play these gaffes or anything like that,(275)
关于乔拜登的年龄和玩这些失言或类似的东西,

does it cause Democratic infighting?(276)
它会导致民主内inf吗?

And I think that'ssomething to be more worried more about at(277)
而且我认为这更令人担心

this stage with Biden.(278)
这个阶段与拜登。

AMNA NAWAZ: You mentioned President Trump,but I want to ask you about something else.(279)
AMNA NAWAZ:你提到了特朗普总统,但我想问你一些其他问题。

Over theweekend, he retweeted a post from a comedian(280)
上周末,他转发了一位喜剧演员的帖子

linking the Clintons to the death of JeffreyEpstein, the(281)
将克林顿夫妇与杰弗里爱泼斯坦的死亡联系起来

accused sex trafficker in jail this weekend.(282)
本周末被控性侵犯者入狱。

We're not showing it here because it is aconspiracy theory.(283)
我们没有在这里展示它,因为它是一个阴谋论。

It’sbaseless.(284)
这是毫无根据的。

It traces back years, just some far rightconspiracy theories.(285)
它追溯了几年,只是一些极右翼的阴谋论。

Shawna, of all the things the president couldhave been tweeting about this weekend, why(286)
Shawna,总统可能在本周末发推文的所有事情,为什么呢

this?(287)
这个?

SHAWNA THOMAS: Because he -- I mean, I can'tget into the president's head and I can't(288)
SHAWNA THOMAS:因为他 - 我的意思是,我不能进入总统的头脑而我不能

pretend to bein the president's head, but he saw something,(289)
假装在总统的头上,但他看到了什么,

it attacked the Clintons, he is still attackingthe Clintons,(290)
它袭击了克林顿夫妇,他仍在攻击克林顿夫妇,

people still cheer “lock her up” at hisevents, at his campaign events.(291)
在他的竞选活动中,人们仍在为他的活动“锁定她”欢呼。

And, you know what?(292)
而且,你知道吗?

He pressedretweet.(293)
他按转推。

And this is just what he does.(294)
而这正是他所做的。

He has spread other conspiracy theories.(295)
他传播了其他阴谋论。

We can go all the way back toBarack Obama's birth certificate.(296)
我们可以一直回到巴拉克奥巴马的出生证明。

Now, yes, he could have been tweetings aboutother things like, hey, does the Bureau of(297)
现在,是的,他本来可以发布关于其他事情的推文,嘿,局长

Prisons havestaffing problems?(298)
监狱有人员配备问题?

What is going on there?(299)
那里发生了什么?

There are some real issues with Epstein andwill his victims be(300)
爱泼斯坦有一些真正的问题,他的受害者也会这样

able to be able to see justice, and that kindof thing.(301)
能够看到正义,以及那种事情。

But, you know, this is what the presidentlikes to do(302)
但是,你知道,这就是总统喜欢做的事情

and now we're talking about it.(303)
现在我们正在谈论它。

AMNA NAWAZ: Tammy, with 63 million Twitterfollowers, there’s -- you know, I have been(304)
AMNA NAWAZ:Tammy,有6300万推特粉丝,有 - 你知道,我一直都是

incountries where conspiracy theories and misinformation(305)
在阴谋论和错误信息的国家

campaigns are very active, it has an impact.(306)
活动非常活跃,有影响力。

Doyou worry about that here?(307)
你在这担心吗?

Is there concern?(308)
有顾虑吗?

TAMARA KEITH: We are also in a country whereconspiracy theories have been very active(309)
TAMARA KEITH:我们也是一个阴谋理论非常活跃的国家

especially inrecent years, especially with social media,(310)
特别是近年来,尤其是社交媒体,

and President Trump has at times retweetedor otherwise(311)
特朗普总统有时转推或以其他方式转发

trafficked in conspiracy theories.(312)
在阴谋论中被贩运。

So, that he's doing this now is not reallyout of character.(313)
所以,他现在这样做并不是真的不合时宜。

It's somethingthat he does.(314)
这是他做的事情。

And I think that we are in a time in thiscountry where conspiracy theories, for whatever(315)
而且我认为我们正处于这个国家的阴谋论,无论如何

reason, areparticularly sticky, and especially on the(316)
原因,特别粘,尤其是

right but not entirely on the right, alsovery much on the left(317)
对,但不是完全在右边,也在左边

conspiracy theories have taken hold.(318)
阴谋论已经扎根。

And so, this is -- this is sort of -- thisis where we are.(319)
所以,这就是 - 这就是 - 这就是我们所处的位置。

SHAWNA THOMAS: And the question really -- Imean, the larger question that comes out of(320)
SHAWNA THOMAS:这个问题真的 - 我的意思是,更大的问题来自于

thisconspiracy thing is what do we do about social(321)
这个阴谋的事情是我们如何处理社会问题

media?(322)
媒体?

And are we going to hold social media companiesaccountable for the spread of things that(323)
我们是否会让社交媒体公司对事物的传播负责

are not true?(324)
不是真的吗?

And this is something that Congress has beentalking about and they have been trying to(325)
这是国会一直在讨论的事情,他们一直在努力

tackle it, but theyhaven't done anything yet.(326)
解决它,但他们还没有做任何事情。

I think this reiterates that that conversationis really important.(327)
我认为这重申了那次谈话非常重要。

AMNA NAWAZ: Another conversation to have atanother time.(328)
AMNA NAWAZ:另一次有另一次谈话。

SHAWNA THOMAS: There will be so many.(329)
SHAWNA THOMAS:会有这么多人。

AMNA NAWAZ: Shawna Thomas of “Vice News”,Tamara Keith of NPR, thanks to you both.(330)
AMNA NAWAZ:“副新闻”的Shawna Thomas,NPR的Tamara Keith,感谢你们两位。

TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome.(331)
TAMARA KEITH:不客气。

SHAWNA THOMAS: Thanks.(332)
SHAWNA THOMAS:谢谢。


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