U.S. responsible for collapse of Taliban peace talks, says Obama official
2019-09-09 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: We look further now into whythe talks collapsed and where this goes from(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:我们现在进一步研究谈判为什么会崩溃以及这种情况发生的原因

here with Laurel Miller.(2)
与劳雷尔米勒在一起。

She was President Obama's special representativefor Afghanistan and Pakistan.(3)
她是奥巴马总统在阿富汗和巴基斯坦的特别代表。

She's now at the International Crisis Group.(4)
她现在在国际危机组织。

It is a global nonprofit.(5)
这是一个全球性的非营利组织。

Laurel Miller, welcome back to the "NewsHour."(6)
Laurel Miller,欢迎回到“NewsHour”。

So, we heard President Trump say today thatthe peace talks are dead.(7)
所以,我们听到特朗普总统今天说和平谈判已经死亡。

Do we believe, do you believe that's the case?(8)
我们相信,您是否相信这种情况?

LAUREL MILLER, Former State Department Official:They don't have to be dead.(9)
LAUREL MILLER,前国务院官员:他们不一定要死。

It's a question of whether the U.S. has thewill to restart the talks.(10)
这是一个美国是否有意重启会谈的问题。

Some of the statements that have been madeby Secretary Pompeo, in particular, have indicated(11)
特别是Pompeo秘书所作的一些陈述表明了这一点

some openness to restarting the talks, andthe Taliban has likewise.(12)
对重启会谈持开放态度,塔利班同样如此。

It's hard to know how to interpret PresidentTrump's latest statements that sound more(13)
很难知道如何解释特朗普总统的最新声明

definitive, given that he has changed hismind on similar issues in the past.(14)
鉴于他过去曾在类似问题上改变主意,因此确定无疑。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And given that it's just acouple of days after we thought these -- the(15)
JUDY WOODRUFF:鉴于我们在考虑这些问题后仅仅几天 -

meetings were on.(16)
会议开始了。

LAUREL MILLER: That's right.(17)
LAUREL MILLER:没错。

JUDY WOODRUFF: What's your understanding ofexactly what caused this thing to go off the(18)
JUDY WOODRUFF:你对究竟是什么导致这件事情的理解是什么?

rails?(19)
轨道?

The president is blaming, as you know, Talibanattacks that include killing an American service(20)
正如你所知,总统正在指责塔利班的袭击,其中包括杀害美国的一项服务

member in Afghanistan.(21)
阿富汗成员。

But Americans have been killed regularly overmany months.(22)
但美国人经常在几个月内被杀。

And many people we have talked to say theythink there's there's much more here.(23)
和我们谈过的很多人说他们认为这里还有更多。

LAUREL MILLER: Yes.(24)
LAUREL MILLER:是的。

I mean, there's no logic, you can say, tothat explanation.(25)
我的意思是,你可以说,这个解释没有逻辑。

The attacks, the ramping up of violence thatwas described in the earlier piece has been(26)
这些袭击事件,前一部分所描述的暴力事件不断加剧

going on throughout these negotiations, almosta year now.(27)
在这些谈判中进行,差不多一年了。

Last year, Afghanistan was the deadliest conflictin the world.(28)
去年,阿富汗是世界上最致命的冲突。

This has been a trajectory over a long periodof time.(29)
这是一段很长一段时间的轨迹。

And many Americans have been killed beforenow.(30)
许多美国人此前已被杀害。

So the idea that one particular attack, tragicas it may be, was the unique reason for canceling(31)
因此,一个特定的攻击,尽管可能是悲惨的,是取消的独特原因

these last-minute, thrown-together eventsin Camp David doesn't sound very credible.(32)
这些在戴维营举行的最后一分钟,一起举办的活动听起来并不可信。

What's more likely is that the Taliban didn'twant to show up, because it was their understanding(33)
更有可能的是,塔利班不想出现,因为这是他们的理解

that the deal had been concluded, that ithad been negotiated with Ambassador Khalilzad.(34)
该协议已经结束,已与哈利勒扎德大使谈判。

Why would they want to come to Camp Davidto reopen the deal?(35)
他们为什么要来戴维营来重新开始交易呢?

JUDY WOODRUFF: In other words, they had beenin these discussions with Ambassador Khalilzad,(36)
JUDY WOODRUFF:换句话说,他们与哈利勒扎德大使进行了这些讨论,

and they thought that that was what was goingto -- they were going to be discussing, whereas(37)
他们认为那就是他们要讨论的事情,而他们正在讨论

the word they got from the White House wasthat this was going to be something that was(38)
他们从白宫得到的消息是,这将是一件事

open.(39)
打开。

LAUREL MILLER: Right.(40)
LAUREL MILLER:对。

At a minimum, there was a lot of ambiguityabout what this meeting would be.(41)
关于这次会议的内容至少存在很多模糊之处。

Also, the invitation to President Ghani raisedquestions as to what was the intention of(42)
此外,邀请加尼总统提出了关于其意图的问题

this meeting, given that the negotiationsthat have taken place so far have only been(43)
鉴于到目前为止进行的谈判只是在这次会议上进行的

on a narrow set of issues just between theU.S. and the Taliban?(44)
在美国和塔利班之间的一系列问题上?

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, let's talk about whatwas in the agreement.(45)
JUDY WOODRUFF:好吧,我们来谈谈协议中的内容。

We just heard Jane Ferguson refer to -- andwe have heard this before -- 5,000 some U.S.(46)
我们刚刚听到Jane Ferguson的提及 - 我们之前听过这个 - 美国有5000个

troops out of the total 14,000 in the coalition,a follow-up of Taliban talks with the Afghan(47)
联军总共14,000人中的部队,是对阿富汗塔利班会谈的后续行动

government.(48)
政府。

What more do we know about what was in thisdeal?(49)
我们还知道这笔交易的内容吗?

LAUREL MILLER: Not a lot more.(50)
LAUREL MILLER:不是很多。

I mean, the administration and others, thevery, very few people who've actually seen(51)
我的意思是,政府和其他人,实际上看到的极少数人

the text of the agreement, have been extraordinarilytight-lipped about it.(52)
协议的内容,对此非常缄默。

So we know about the first phase of drawdown,the 5,000, over 135 days that you referred(53)
因此,我们了解了您提到的第一阶段的缩编,即5,000天,超过135天

to, very little detail about what the restof a drawdown of American forces would look(54)
关于美国军队剩余部分看起来的细节很少

like.(55)
喜欢。

We know there would be a commitment to startingAfghan talks, and that there would be some(56)
我们知道会有开始阿富汗会谈的承诺,而且会有一些

kind of assurances from the Taliban that theywould break with al-Qaida and prevent Afghanistan(57)
塔利班保证他们会打击基地组织并阻止阿富汗

from ever again being used as a launchingpad for terrorism.(58)
再次被用作恐怖主义的跳板。

JUDY WOODRUFF: But, at this point, how muchtrust is there among these parties involved?(59)
JUDY WOODRUFF:但是,在这一点上,这些政党之间有多少信任?

LAUREL MILLER: Very little, but you nevernegotiate peace on the basis of trust.(60)
LAUREL MILLER:很少,但你永远不会在信任的基础上谈判和平。

You negotiate on the basis of interests andof trying to identify common interests.(61)
您根据利益进行谈判并尝试确定共同利益。

And the reasons that gave birth to these negotiationsnearly a year ago still exist.(62)
近一年前产生这些谈判的原因仍然存在。

The Afghan war is a bloody stalemate.(63)
阿富汗战争是一场血腥的僵局。

The U.S. is not going to defeat the Taliban.(64)
美国不会打败塔利班。

The Afghan government is not showing signsof being able to defeat the Taliban.(65)
阿富汗政府没有表现出能够打败塔利班的迹象。

And the U.S. was looking for a way out, withas much grace and potential stability left(66)
美国正在寻找一条出路,同时保持优势和潜在的稳定性

behind as possible.(67)
尽可能落后。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Is it your understanding thatthe key figures in the Trump administration(68)
JUDY WOODRUFF:特朗普政府的关键人物是你的理解吗?

believed that if the Taliban signed on toany agreement, that they were going to abide(69)
相信如果塔利班签署任何协议,他们将会遵守

by it?(70)
通过它?

My question is, were they -- did they trulybelieve that the Taliban was ready to split(71)
我的问题是,如果他们 - 他们真的相信塔利班准备分裂

from al-Qaida, to stop attacking the Afghangovernment and so on?(72)
从基地组织,到停止袭击阿富汗政府等等?

LAUREL MILLER: You don't have to believe thatthey're ready in order to enter into an agreement(73)
LAUREL MILLER:你不必相信他们已经做好准备以达成协议

like this.(74)
像这样。

You have to have mechanisms for verifying,for implementing the agreement, and then provisions(75)
您必须拥有验证,实施协议和规定的机制

that enable you to pull out of the agreementif they don't abide by it.(76)
如果他们不遵守协议,您可以退出协议。

But you can never know whether that intentionis real in advance of actually testing it(77)
但是你真的无法在实际测试之前知道这个意图是否真实

through a negotiation and implementation.(78)
通过谈判和实施。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Is there one party on whomwe can say the responsibility for this thing(79)
JUDY WOODRUFF:是否有一个政党可以对此事负责

falling apart lies?(80)
分崩离析?

LAUREL MILLER: I think the United States.(81)
LAUREL MILLER:我认为是美国。

I mean, I -- that's not to say that therehaven't been difficulties in the negotiations(82)
我的意思是,我 - 这并不是说谈判没有遇到任何困难

or that the Taliban hasn't been stubbornlyinsistent on its positions.(83)
或者说塔利班并没有固执地坚持其立场。

But there's no evidence so far there was anylast-minute change of position their part.(84)
但到目前为止,没有任何证据证明他们的职位有任何最后一刻的变化。

There's only evidence that there was thislast-minute initiative to hold the Camp David(85)
只有证据表明最后一刻才举行大卫营

meeting.(86)
会议。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Right, because they had -- asyou said earlier, they had agreed or thought(87)
JUDY WOODRUFF:是的,因为他们有 - 如前所述,他们已经同意或想过

they had an agreement, a tentative agreement,with Ambassador Khalilzad.(88)
他们与哈利勒扎德大使达成协议,暂时达成协议。

LAUREL MILLER: Right.(89)
LAUREL MILLER:对。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Where do we go from here, LaurelMiller?(90)
JUDY WOODRUFF:劳雷尔米勒,我们从哪里开始?

LAUREL MILLER: Yes.(91)
LAUREL MILLER:是的。

I mean, it's -- there's no good alternativeto trying to negotiate a peace agreement in(92)
我的意思是,这是 - 没有其他方法可以替代谈判和平协议

Afghanistan.(93)
阿富汗。

That remains true today as it was a few daysbefore this.(94)
今天仍然如此,因为它在此前几天。

It's obviously going to be hard to restartthe talks, if the parties want to, because(95)
如果各方愿意,显然很难重启谈判,因为

credibility has been damaged.(96)
信誉受损。

And, already, minimal trust has been furtherlost.(97)
而且,已经失去了最小的信任。

(COUGHING)
JUDY WOODRUFF: And at this point -- excuseme.(98)
JUDY WOODRUFF:此时 - 请原谅。

Go ahead.(99)
前进。

Have a sip of water.(100)
喝一口水。

(COUGHING)
JUDY WOODRUFF: At this point, President Ghani,who -- sorry -- go ahead and -- sorry about(101)
JUDY WOODRUFF:在这一点上,Ghani总统,抱歉 - 继续 - 抱歉

your cough.(102)
你的咳嗽

But President Ghani of Afghanistan was reluctantto accept these talks, but then he agreed(103)
但阿富汗总统加尼不愿接受这些谈判,但后来他同意了

to come.(104)
来。

And then, I guess on Friday, he changed hismind about coming.(105)
然后,我想在周五,他改变了对即将到来的看法。

So, there is a factor there.(106)
所以,那里有一个因素。

LAUREL MILLER: Yes, it's not clear whether...(107)
LAUREL MILLER:是的,目前尚不清楚......

JUDY WOODRUFF: I'm sorry about that.(108)
JUDY WOODRUFF:我很抱歉。

(COUGHING)
LAUREL MILLER: It's not clear whether hisnot coming was a refusal to enter into talks,(109)
LAUREL MILLER:目前尚不清楚他的未来是否会拒绝参加谈判,

as much as just the cancellation.(110)
只是取消。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Sorry about that, Laurel Miller.(111)
JUDY WOODRUFF:很抱歉,Laurel Miller。

It happens to all of us.(112)
它发生在我们所有人身上。

It's happened to me.(113)
它发生在我身上。

Thank you very much, and we will have youon again to talk about this.(114)
非常感谢,我们将再次与您讨论这个问题。

LAUREL MILLER: Thank you very much.(115)
LAUREL MILLER:非常感谢。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Thank you.(116)
JUDY WOODRUFF:谢谢。


All News Articles fetched from PBS RSS Feeds and copyrighted by pbs.org