What were Rudy Giuliani's business dealings in Ukraine?
2019-11-27 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: Another day, another new handfulof revelations filling in our understand of(1)
朱迪·伍德鲁夫(JUDY WOODRUFF):另一天,又有一些新的启示充实了我们对

how President Trump, his associates, and hisadministration have been interacting with(2)
特朗普总统,他的同伙和他的政府如何与之互动

Ukraine.(3)
乌克兰。

What was President Trump's personal attorneyRudy Giuliani doing in that Eastern European(4)
特朗普总统的私人律师鲁迪·朱利安尼在那个东欧做什么

country?(5)
国家?

What did the president know about the governmentwhistle-blower complaint, and when did he(6)
总统对政府举报人的投诉了解多少,他何时才知道

know it?(7)
知道?

Here with me to walk through yet another dayof developments is our own White House correspondent,(8)
在这里,我将与白宫通讯员一起探讨发展的另一天,

Yamiche Alcindor.(9)
Yamiche Alcindor。

So, hello, Yamiche.(10)
所以,您好,Yamiche。

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Hi.(11)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:嗨。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Much to follow, as always.(12)
朱迪·伍德鲁夫(JUDY WOODRUFF):与往常一样,还有很多事情要做。

So, we did learn more today about Rudy Giuliani'sinvolvements, dealings in Ukraine.(13)
因此,我们今天确实了解了鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)在乌克兰的交易情况。

What are we learning?(14)
我们在学什么?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: The key thing is that peopleoften say, you need to follow the money.(15)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:关键是人们经常说,您需要跟着钱走。

And in this case, both The Washington Postand The New York Times say they followed Rudy(16)
在这种情况下,《华盛顿邮报》和《纽约时报》都说他们跟随了鲁迪

Giuliani's money to show that he was tryingto really negotiate a lucrative consulting(17)
朱利安尼(Giuliani)的钱,表明他正在努力真正谈判一个有利可图的咨询服务

deal with the government of Ukraine whilehe was, at the same time, urging the top prosecutor(18)
同时与乌克兰政府打交道,敦促最高检察官

there to look into Joe Biden and Hunter Biden.(19)
在那里看乔·拜登和猎人·拜登。

So what we know is that through documentsRudy Giuliani was negotiating up to at least(20)
所以我们知道的是,通过文件Rudy Giuliani正在与至少

$200,000 to be paid by the Ukrainian governmentto do work that would have essentially been(21)
乌克兰政府将支付200,000美元来完成本来应该是

him looking into whether or not Ukraine hadstolen money that somehow then ended up overseas.(22)
他调查乌克兰是否偷了钱,然后以某种方式最终逃往海外。

Rudy Giuliani says that he looked at thisdeal, that he agrees that this was something(23)
鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)说,他研究了这笔交易,并同意这是某件事

that he was looking into, but he says that,ultimately, he said, this was a conflict of(24)
他一直在研究,但是他说,最终,他说,这是

interests, I thought it would look bad, andI never made a penny off of this.(25)
利益,我以为这看起来会很糟糕,而且我从来没有为此一分钱。

Why this is important is because what we seeis Rudy Giuliani pressuring, essentially,(26)
之所以如此重要,是因为我们看到的是鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)本质上在施加压力,

or making Ukrainian officials look into thisclaim that Joe Biden might have been a corrupt(27)
或让乌克兰官员调查乔·拜登(Joe Biden)可能是腐败分子的说法

person operating in their country...(28)
在他们的国家经营的人...

JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.(29)
朱迪·伍德鲁夫:对。

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: ... at the same time ashe's actually trying to benefit financially(30)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:...在他实际上试图从经济上受益的同时

from it.(31)
从中。

So this is a very, very big deal and somethingthat people are going to continue to look(32)
所以这是非常非常大的事情,人们将继续关注

into.(33)
入。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And it raises questions again,Yamiche, about the relationship between Rudy(34)
JUDY WOODRUFF:Yamiche再次提出了关于Rudy之间的关系的问题

Giuliani and the president.(35)
朱利亚尼和总统。

He's the president's personal lawyer.(36)
他是总统的私人律师。

But what's happening in their relationship?(37)
但是他们之间的关系发生了什么?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Well, it's very interesting,because the other thing to note is that this(38)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:很好,因为要注意的另一件事是

could be breaking the law.(39)
可能违反法律。

If Rudy Giuliani was operating in this wayin Ukraine, he could actually have been looking(40)
如果鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)以这种方式在乌克兰经营,他实际上可能一直在寻找

into possibly not registering as a foreignagent here.(41)
可能不在这里注册为外国代理商。

And that is breaking the law, because youwould be essentially seeking to influence(42)
那是违反法律的,因为您实质上是在寻求影响

the United States government on the behalfof a foreign country.(43)
美国政府代表外国。

The other thing to note is that PresidentTrump was answering questions about this,(44)
还要注意的另一件事是,特朗普总统正在回答有关此的问题,

about whether or not he told Rudy Giulianito do anything in Ukraine.(45)
关于他是否告诉鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)在乌克兰做任何事情。

And here's what he told Bill O'Reilly -- BillO'Reilly.(46)
这就是他告诉比尔·奥莱利(Bill O'Reilly)的话。

He's a former FOX News host.(47)
他是FOX新闻的前主持人。

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:Well, you have to ask that to Rudy.(48)
美国总统唐纳德·特鲁普(DONALD TRUMP):嗯,你必须问鲁迪。

But Rudy, I don't even know -- I know he wasgoing to go to Ukraine, and I think he canceled(49)
但是鲁迪,我什至不知道-我知道他要去乌克兰,而且我认为他取消了

a trip.(50)
一次旅行。

But Rudy has other clients other than me.(51)
但是鲁迪除了我以外还有其他客户。

No, I didn't direct him.(52)
不,我没有指导他。

But he is a warrior.(53)
但是他是个战士。

Rudy is a warrior.(54)
鲁迪是个战士。

Rudy went.(55)
鲁迪去了。

He possibly saw something.(56)
他可能看到了一些东西。

But you have to understand, Rudy has otherpeople that he represents.(57)
但是您必须了解,鲁迪还有其他代表的人。

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Some people see this asthe president trying to put some distance(58)
亚米奇·奥尔辛多:有些人认为这是总统试图拉开距离

between himself and his personal attorneyRudy Giuliani, even though number of officials(59)
在他和他的私人律师Rudy Giuliani之间,尽管官员人数众多

have said that President Trump leaned on RudyGiuliani to try to pressure Ukraine for this(60)
曾说特朗普总统依靠鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)试图为此向乌克兰施加压力

money.(61)
钱。

The other thing to note is that Rudy Giuliani,at one point, said that he had insurance on(62)
还要注意的另一件事是,鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)曾说过他在

President Trump, in case he tried to throwhim under the bus.(63)
特朗普总统,以防万一他试图将他扔下公共汽车。

But he's since said that this is him beingsarcastic.(64)
但是自那以后,他一直在说这是对他的讽刺。

His lawyer, though, has said that he toldRudy Giuliani to call the president to reassure(65)
不过,他的律师表示,他告诉鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)打电话给总统以保证

him that he was not trying to say anythingthat would upset their relationship.(66)
他说他不想说任何会破坏他们关系的东西。

But I want to read a quote to you from RudyGiuliani, because he's really trying to make(67)
但我想阅读鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)给您的报价,因为他确实在努力使

sure that he's defending the president andin the president's good graces.(68)
确保他在捍卫总统并保持总统的良好风范。

He tweeted today: "Reality check.(69)
他今天在推特上说:“事实检查。

Democrats have now issued more subpoenas thanthey have had bills signed into law.(70)
民主党人现在发出的传票比他们已签署法案的更多。

Their focus is not on bettering the livesof everyday Americans.(71)
他们的重点不是改善美国人的生活。

It's about protecting their seats and remainingin power."(72)
这是关于保护他们的座位并保持权力。”

And that, Judy, is really Rudy Giuliani echoingthe president's complaints about this.(73)
朱迪(Judy)真的是Rudy Giuliani回应了总统对此的抱怨。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes, so much to -- so muchinteresting there to follow.(74)
JUDY WOODRUFF:是的,接下来有很多有趣的事情。

But, Yamiche, separately, there was some reportingtoday about when President Trump learned of(75)
但是,亚米切(Yamiche)分开,今天有一些关于特朗普总统何时获悉的报道。

that government whistle-blower's complaint.(76)
政府举报者的投诉。

And what do we know about that?(77)
我们对此有什么了解?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: We long knew that WhiteHouse officials were facing pressure from(78)
亚米奇·奥尔辛多:我们早就知道白宫官员正面临来自白宫的压力。

Congress and from reporters to release this$391 million in military aid to Ukraine.(79)
国会并从记者那里释放了对乌克兰的3.91亿美元军事援助。

What we now know, based on the reporting byThe New York Times, is that the president(80)
根据《纽约时报》的报道,我们现在知道的是,总统

was briefed on the whistle-blower's complaintsome two weeks before that military aid was(81)
在向军事举报人提起诉讼的两周前,向他通报了举报人的申诉。

released.(82)
已发布。

And why that's really important is becausethe president told the E.U. ambassador, the(83)
为什么这真的很重要,是因为总统告诉欧盟大使,

European Union ambassador, Gordon Sondland,that he didn't want any sort of quid pro quo(84)
欧盟大使戈登·桑德兰(Gordon Sondland)表示,他不希望采取任何形式的交易

when they were talking before the money wasreleased.(85)
当他们在钱被释放之前说话时。

And this timeline essentially shows that thepresident said this after he knew that there(86)
这个时间表实质上表明,总统在得知总统的讲话后说了这一点

was a whistle-blower complaint that was talkingspecifically about a quid pro quo.(87)
是一个举报人的投诉,专门谈论一种交换条件。

The other thing to note is that the WhiteHouse has really had this defense that everything(88)
还要注意的另一件事是,白宫确实有这样一种辩解:

was OK because Ukraine got the money and thepresidents of Ukraine and the United States(89)
可以,因为乌克兰得到了钱,乌克兰和美国的总统

eventually met.(90)
最终见面。

What we know now is that aid, again, was releasedbecause the president knew about -- or at(91)
我们现在知道的是,再次释放援助是因为总统知道-

least was in part because the president knewabout the whistle-blower complaint.(92)
至少部分原因是总统知道举报人的投诉。

The other thing to note is, the White Housemeeting never actually happened.(93)
还要注意的另一件事是,白宫会议从未真正发生过。

The two presidents met on the sidelines ofthe year -- of the United Nations.(94)
两位总统是在联合国的闭门会议上开会的。

But the president of Ukraine has yet to evercome to the White House and get what would(95)
但是乌克兰总统至今尚未来到白宫,并获得

really be a very diplomatic and big welcomingat the White House.(96)
在白宫真的是一个非常外交和大受欢迎的人。

That's much different than a sideline meeting.(97)
这与场外会议有很大不同。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Coveted invitation.(98)
朱迪·伍德鲁夫:令人垂涎的邀请。

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Yes.(99)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:是的。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Thank you, Yamiche.(100)
JUDY WOODRUFF:谢谢Yamiche。

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Thanks.(101)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:谢谢。


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