The fundamental policy disagreements that pushed John Bolton away from Trump
2019-09-10 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: Exit John Bolton.(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:退出John Bolton。

The White House national security adviseris out of that job tonight.(2)
白宫国家安全顾问今晚没有这项工作。

President Trump made the surprise announcementearlier today that he asked Bolton to leave,(3)
特朗普总统今天早些时候突然宣布他要求博尔顿离开,

in the latest turn of a long Washington career.(4)
在华盛顿长期职业生涯的最新转折中。

Foreign affairs correspondent Nick Schifrinbegins our coverage.(5)
外交记者Nick Schifrin开始报道。

NICK SCHIFRIN: For decades, Ambassador JohnBolton has been one of Washington's leading(6)
NICK SCHIFRIN:几十年来,约翰博尔顿大使一直是华盛顿的领导者之一

hawks.(7)
鹰派。

JOHN BOLTON, Former U.S. National SecurityAdviser: The overthrow of Saddam Hussein,(8)
美国前国家安全顾问约翰·博尔顿:推翻萨达姆·侯赛因,

that military action, was a resounding success.(9)
那次军事行动取得了巨大的成功。

NICK SCHIFRIN: From defending the war in Iraq,to threatening Iran, Bolton has long advocated(10)
尼克·施菲林:从捍卫伊拉克战争到威胁伊朗,博尔顿一直主张

the U.S. military as the best way to deteradversaries and change countries' behavior.(11)
美国军队是阻止对手和改变国家行为的最佳方式。

JOHN BOLTON: The Iranian regime must be madeaware, that if it continues down the path(12)
约翰·博尔顿:必须让伊朗政权意识到,如果它继续走下去

of international isolation, there will betangible and painful consequences.(13)
国际孤立,将产生切实和痛苦的后果。

NICK SCHIFRIN: And, today, a career of controversycontinued, when he was fired by tweet.(14)
NICK SCHIFRIN:今天,当他被推特解雇时,争议的事业仍在继续。

President Trump wrote: "I informed John Boltonlast night that his services are no longer(15)
特朗普总统写道:“我昨晚通知约翰博尔顿,他的服务已不复存在

needed at the White House.(16)
在白宫需要。

I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions."(17)
我不同意他的许多建议。“

Just 12 minutes later, Bolton shot back: "Ioffered to resign last night, and President(18)
仅仅12分钟后,博尔顿就回击道:“我昨晚提出辞职,总统

Trump said, 'Let's talk about it tomorrow.'"(19)
特朗普说,“我们明天再说吧。”

That talk apparently never happened.(20)
那次谈话显然从未发生过。

Today, the president's allies sounded calm,and described the dispute as normal Washington(21)
今天,总统的盟友听起来很平静,并将争议描述为正常的华盛顿

turnover.(22)
周转。

SEN.(23)
SEN。

LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I appreciate what Johnhas done for country for a long time, and(24)
LINDSEY GRAHAM(R-SC):我很欣赏John长期为国家所做的事情

I think the president will get to pick a nationalsecurity adviser he has more confidence in.(25)
我认为总统将会选择一位他更有信心的国家安全顾问。

NICK SCHIFRIN: At first, Bolton did enjoythe president's confidence on major foreign(26)
NICK SCHIFRIN:首先,博尔顿确实享有总统对主要外国人的信心

policy issues.(27)
政策问题。

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:I am announcing today that the United States(28)
唐纳德·特朗普,美国总统:我今天宣布美国

will withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal.(29)
将退出伊朗核协议。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Last year President Trump withdrewfrom the deal that froze Iran's nuclear program(30)
尼克·施菲林:去年特朗普总统退出了冻结伊朗核计划的协议

in exchange for sanctions relief, which foryears had been one of Bolton's top targets.(31)
以换取制裁救济,多年来一直是博尔顿的首要目标之一。

JOHN BOLTON: The Iran deal was in fact theworst diplomatic debacle in American history.(32)
约翰·布尔顿:伊朗的交易实际上是美国历史上最严重的外交危机。

NICK SCHIFRIN: They also agreed on leavingthe Reagan-era Intermediate Range Nuclear(33)
尼克·施菲林:他们还同意离开里根时代的中级核

Forces, or INF, treaty, with Russia.(34)
与俄罗斯的力量,或INF,条约。

JOHN BOLTON: I think President Trump shouldsay to Vladimir Putin, you either bring Russia(35)
约翰·博尔顿:我认为特朗普总统应该对弗拉基米尔·普京说,你要么带俄罗斯

back into compliance with the INF Treaty,or we're going to get out of that one too.(36)
恢复遵守INF条约,或者我们也将退出该条约。

NICK SCHIFRIN: But administration officialstell "PBS NewsHour," over time, Bolton's positions(37)
尼克·施菲林:但随着时间的推移,政府官员告诉“PBS NewsHour”,博尔顿的立场

emerged as too aggressive to a president whocampaigned on ending wars.(38)
对于一场为结束战争而竞选的总统而言,他们过于咄咄逼人。

DONALD TRUMP: We will stop racing to toppleforeign -- and you understand this -- foreign(39)
DONALD TRUMP:我们将停止比赛以推翻外国人 - 你明白这一点 - 外国人

regimes that we know nothing about, that weshouldn't be involved with.(40)
我们一无所知的政权,我们不应该参与其中。

NICK SCHIFRIN: President Trump has brokendecades of precedence by negotiating with(41)
尼克·施菲林:特朗普总统通过谈判破坏了数十年的优先权

North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.(42)
朝鲜领导人金正恩。

Bolton has long called that kind of negotiationappeasement.(43)
博尔顿长期以来一直称这种谈判为绥靖政策。

JOHN BOLTON: More diplomacy with North Korea,or sanctions, whether against North Korea(44)
约翰·布尔顿:对朝鲜采取更多的外交手段或制裁措施

or an effort to apply sanctions against China,is just giving North Korea more time to increase(45)
或者是对中国实施制裁的努力,只是让朝鲜有更多的时间来增加

its nuclear arsenal.(46)
它的核武库。

NICK SCHIFRIN: On Venezuela, the administrationhas launched a pressure campaign to remove(47)
尼克·施菲林:在委内瑞拉,政府已经发起了一场消除压力的运动

President Nicolas Maduro.(48)
尼古拉斯·马杜罗总统。

But administration officials tell "PBS NewsHour"President Trump felt backed into a corner(49)
但政府官员告诉“PBS NewsHour”特朗普总统感到自己陷入了困境

after Bolton repeatedly hinted about militaryintervention.(50)
博尔顿多次暗示军事干预后。

JOHN BOLTON: I will say again, as the presidenthas said from the outset, and that Nicolas(51)
约翰·博尔顿:正如总统从一开始就说的那样,我会再说一遍尼古拉斯

Maduro and those supporting him, particularlythose who are not Venezuelan, should know(52)
马杜罗和那些支持他的人,特别是那些不是委内瑞拉人的人,应该知道

is, all options are on the table.(53)
是的,所有选项都在桌面上。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Just last week, the presidentand Bolton disagreed over how to end the U.S.'(54)
尼克·施菲林:就在上周,总统和博尔顿就如何结束美国问题发表了不同意见。

longest war.(55)
最长的战争。

The U.S. has been leading peace talks withthe Taliban, and the president wanted to try(56)
美国一直在与塔利班进行和平谈判,总统想要尝试

and seal the deal by inviting the Talibanto Camp David.(57)
并通过邀请塔利班到戴维营来达成协议。

Bolton opposed that.(58)
博尔顿反对这一点。

And even over Iran, the two diverged.(59)
甚至在伊朗问题上,两人也分道扬..

When Iran shot down a U.S. drone in June,Bolton pushed for a military response.(60)
当伊朗在六月击落一架美国无人机时,博尔顿推动军事反应。

President Trump called it off at the lastminute.(61)
特朗普总统在最后一刻宣布了这一消息。

Today Press Secretary Hogan Gidley said thedifferences were irreconcilable.(62)
今天,新闻秘书霍根吉德利说,这些分歧是不可调和的。

HOGAN GIDLEY, White House Deputy Press Secretary:John Bolton's priorities and policies just(63)
HOGAN GIDLEY,白宫副新闻秘书:John Bolton的优先事项和政策

don't line up with the president's.(64)
不要与总统的排队。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Bolton was President Trump'sthird full-time national security adviser.(65)
尼克·施菲林:博尔顿是特朗普总统的第三位全职国家安全顾问。

Retired General Mike Flynn lasted only fiveweeks.(66)
退休将军Mike Flynn只持续了五周。

Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster served forjust 13 months.(67)
HR麦克马斯特中将仅服役了13个月。

Bolton lasted 17 months.(68)
博尔顿持续了17个月。

By the end, Bolton clashed even with thosewho agreed with him ideologically, including(69)
到最后,博尔顿甚至与那些在意识形态上与他达成一致的人发生冲突,包括

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.(70)
国务卿迈克庞培。

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. Secretary of State: Manytimes, Ambassador Bolton and I disagreed.(71)
MIKE POMPEO,美国国务卿:很多时候,博尔顿大使和我不同意。

That's to be sure.(72)
这是肯定的。

NICK SCHIFRIN: A senior official describesMike Pompeo as a Trump whisperer.(73)
NICK SCHIFRIN:一名高级官员将Mike Pompeo描述为特朗普的低语。

He has won this internal fight, but even hesaid today the administration policy wouldn't(74)
他赢得了这场内部斗争,但即使他今天说政府政策也不会

change, Judy, because this administrationis dominated even more than normal by one(75)
改变,朱迪,因为这个政府比一般人更加支配

man, the president.(76)
男子,总统。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And we are learning that, forsure, right now.(77)
JUDY WOODRUFF:我们现在正在了解这一点。

Along with Nick, we are also joined by ourWhite House correspondent, Yamiche Alcindor.(78)
与尼克一起,我们的白宫记者Yamiche Alcindor也加入了我们的行列。

So, Yamiche, we know it's been reported JohnBolton did have differences with the president(79)
所以,Yamiche,我们知道据报道John Bolton确实与总统有分歧

over time, but what ultimately led to thisdecision, by your reporting?(80)
随着时间的推移,但最终导致这一决定的是你的报道?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Sources close to the presidenttell me this ultimately came down to the president(81)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:接近总统的消息来源告诉我,这最终归结为总统

not seeing Ambassador John Bolton as someonewho was putting on a united front.(82)
没有看到约翰博尔顿大使是一个团结一致的人。

The president, I'm told, likes people thatdisagree with him.(83)
据我所知,总统喜欢那些不同意他的人。

He likes to have spirited discussions aboutnational security or immigration or trade,(84)
他喜欢就国家安全或移民或贸易进行激烈的讨论,

and he's OK with people disagreeing with him,but sources close to the president essentially(85)
人们不同意他的说法他很好,但与总统关系密切的消息来源

told me that, once the president makes a decision,then everybody needs to fall in line.(86)
告诉我,一旦总统做出决定,那么每个人都需要排队。

And essentially John Bolton wasn't seen asfalling in line.(87)
而且基本上没有看到约翰博尔顿排队。

Most recently, that came about because therewere reports that John Bolton and Vice President(88)
最近,这是因为有报道说John Bolton和副总统

Mike Pence disagreed with President Trumpon his decision to try to hold a meeting with(89)
迈克彭斯不同意特朗普总统决定试图与之举行会谈

the Taliban leaders at Camp David.(90)
戴维营的塔利班领导人。

John Bolton thought it wasn't a place thatTaliban leaders should come, and that became(91)
约翰博尔顿认为这不是一个塔利班领导人应该来的地方,那就成了

public, and the White House and people aroundthe president were concerned that there were(92)
公众,白宫和总统周围的人都担心会有

leaks and leaks coming out of the White Houseand that possibly John Bolton was the source(93)
泄漏和泄漏来自白宫,可能是约翰博尔顿的来源

of that.(94)
那个。

So what you saw was a long time coming, withthe president becoming more and more frustrated(95)
所以你看到的是很长一段时间,总统变得越来越沮丧

with John Bolton, but this really coming toa head today.(96)
与约翰博尔顿,但今天这真的是一个头。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Nick, how much do we knowabout how much in the end John Bolton affected(97)
JUDY WOODRUFF:尼克,我们知道约翰博尔顿最终影响了多少

policy and affected the process?(98)
政策和影响过程?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Well, I think there can beno doubt that he affected Iran policy.(99)
尼克·施菲林:嗯,我认为毫无疑问他影响了伊朗的政策。

Previous officials tried to keep the presidentinside the Iran nuclear deal.(100)
以前的官员试图将总统置于伊朗核协议之内。

Bolton helped push the president out of theIran nuclear deal.(101)
博尔顿帮助推动总统退出伊朗核协议。

The two agreed on things like the INF Treaty,arms control.(102)
两国就INF条约,军备控制等问题达成了一致。

And they also agreed on the aggressive rhetoric,even the use of Twitter that the president(103)
他们还就激进的言论达成一致,甚至使用推特总统的Twitter

used.(104)
用过的。

But, ultimately, the president didn't followthrough on Bolton's policies.(105)
但是,最终,总统没有遵循博尔顿的政策。

The president chose not to strike Iran.(106)
总统选择不打击伊朗。

The president chose not to use the militaryin a more visible way as part of Venezuela(107)
作为委内瑞拉的一部分,总统选择不以更明显的方式使用军队

policy.(108)
政策。

And the president wants to negotiate, notonly with North Korea, which Ambassador Bolton(109)
总统希望不仅与朝鲜,博尔顿大使进行谈判

opposed, but also with Iran.(110)
反对,但也与伊朗。

And there could still be this month a meetingbetween President Trump and Iranian President(111)
本月特朗普总统和伊朗总统之间可能会举行会晤

Rouhani.(112)
Rouhani。

And that relates to some criticism that Iheard all day today, is that Bolton tries(113)
这与我今天所听到的一些批评有关,是博尔顿尝试的

to persuade the president, rather than presentoptions that all of the agencies have, as(114)
说服总统,而不是提出所有机构都有的选择

the National Security Council is designedto do.(115)
国家安全委员会的目的是做。

Other people say, no, there was some properprocedures followed, especially on topics(116)
其他人说,不,有一些适当的程序,特别是在主题上

like China.(117)
像中国。

But, at the end of the day, this disagreementwasn't only policy, but personality.(118)
但是,在一天结束时,这种不同意见不仅是政策,而是个性。

A former senior official told us today thatBolton would travel alone to try and kind(119)
一位前高级官员今天告诉我们,博尔顿将独自前往尝试和善良

of stay out of the sight of the president,because the president simply didn't like Bolton(120)
因为总统根本不喜欢博尔顿,所以远离总统的视线

on a personal level very much.(121)
在个人层面上非常。

And that means, while Bolton did have a hugeimpact initially, especially with Iran, the(122)
这意味着,虽然博尔顿最初确实产生了巨大的影响,特别是对伊朗而言

president, at the end of the day, didn't followthrough on Bolton's policies.(123)
总统,在一天结束时,没有贯彻博尔顿的政策。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Fascinating.(124)
JUDY WOODRUFF:很有魅力。

And, Yamiche, as both you and Nick have beenreporting, this is the third national security(125)
而且,Yamiche,正如你和尼克一直在报道的那样,这是第三个国家安全

adviser to leave this administration.(126)
离开这届政府的顾问。

What is the White House saying today aboutthe criticism out there that this is a White(127)
白宫今天所说的批评是什么,这是白人

House again in chaos, in turmoil when it comesto national security?(128)
众议院再次处于混乱状态,在涉及国家安全的动荡中?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: White House aides are really,really pushing back on the idea that the White(129)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:白宫助手真的,真的在推翻白人的想法

House is in chaos, even as Democrats and Republicansbecome concerned with the idea that we have(130)
众议院陷入混乱,即使民主党人和共和党人开始关注我们的想法

seen record turnover in the Trump administration.(131)
在特朗普政府中看到创纪录的营业额。

Now, White House sources I was talking toall day told me that John Bolton was continuing(132)
现在,白宫的消息来源,我整天都在跟他说,约翰博尔顿还在继续

to press the president even after he madea decision on things like North Korea, on(133)
甚至在他就像朝鲜这样的事情做出决定之后,也要向总统施压

things like Venezuela.(134)
像委内瑞拉这样的东西。

And, as a result, this was something thatthey saw coming.(135)
结果,这是他们看到的东西。

But the fact is that, at 10:55 a.m. this morning,White House staff put out a press release,(136)
但事实是,今天早上10:55,白宫工作人员发布了一份新闻稿,

a press schedule that said that AmbassadorJohn Bolton was going to be briefing reporters(137)
新闻时间表说,约翰博尔顿大使将向记者介绍情况

at 1:30 p.m.(138)
下午1:30

And then an hour later, at about 11:55 p.m.,11:55 a.m., the president tweeted that John(139)
然后一小时后,大约晚上11:55,上午11:55,总统在推特上写道

Bolton was in fact no longer going to be withthe administration.(140)
实际上,博尔顿不再与政府合作了。

So what you had is, within an hour, a completedifferent message coming from the White House.(141)
所以你在一小时内得到的是来自白宫的完全不同的信息。

And that, in some cases, people will say,is the chaos of this White House.(142)
在某些情况下,人们会说,这是白宫的混乱。

It's also noted that the president acted onsocial media, when, in fact, with other people,(143)
还有人指出,总统在社交媒体上采取行动,事实上,与其他人一样,

including Nikki Haley, the former ambassadorto United Nations, he had a formal sit-down(144)
包括前联合国大使Nikki Haley在内,他正式坐下来

Oval Office departure for her and said greatthings about her.(145)
椭圆形办公室为她出发并对她说了很多好话。

So what you saw was a love loss there withthe president and John Bolton.(146)
所以你看到的是与总统和约翰博尔顿的爱情损失。

So while the White House is pressing and stressingthat this wasn't chaos, that everyone saw(147)
因此,虽然白宫迫切并强调这不是混乱,但每个人都看到了

this coming, there are people who say thisis the White House once again having a revolving(148)
即将到来,有人说这是白宫再次进行旋转

door that's spinning and spinning more wildlyand more quickly.(149)
门更加旋转和旋转更加狂野和快速。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Not to mention, you have thepresident saying he fired -- he asked John(150)
JUDY WOODRUFF:更不用说,你让总统说他被解雇了 - 他问约翰

Bolton to leave.(151)
博尔顿离开。

John Bolton says he offered to resign.(152)
约翰博尔顿说他提出辞职。

So you have got two completely different stories.(153)
所以你有两个完全不同的故事。

So this is one that is not yet resolved.(154)
所以这是一个尚未解决的问题。

Yamiche Alcindor, Nick Schifrin, thank youboth.(155)
Yamiche Alcindor,Nick Schifrin,谢谢你们俩。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Thank you.(156)
尼克·施菲林:谢谢。


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