Amy Walter and Lisa Lerer on Democrats' 2020 fundraising rules
2019-04-15 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: Turning back now to the racefor the White House and the divisions over(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:现在回过头来看白宫的争夺和分裂

Representative Omar's recent remarks, it istime for Politics Monday, with Amy Walter(2)
代表奥马尔最近发表的言论,是政治周一与艾米沃尔特的时间

of The Cook Political Report and Lisa Lerer,a politics reporter for The New York Times.(3)
“纽约时报”的政治记者,“库克政治报”和丽莎莱勒。

Hello to both of you.(4)
大家好。

It's Politics Monday.(5)
这是周一的政治。

So much so talk about.(6)
这么多谈论。

But let's start with Andrew Yang.(7)
但是让我们从Andrew Yang开始吧。

He's one of the presidential -- many presidentialcandidates out there on the Democratic side.(8)
他是民主党内的总统候选人之一。

And, by the way, we should say, Amy, thattoday, we had -- on the Republican side, we(9)
而且,顺便说一句,我们应该说,艾米,今天,我们在共和党方面,我们

just learned in the last few hours Bill Weldjoining -- saying that he will take on the(10)
刚刚在最后几个小时里学到了比尔韦尔加入 - 说他会接受

president on the Republican side.(11)
共和党方面的总统。

But, on the Democratic side, Andrew Yang,and then you had yesterday the -- Pete Buttigieg(12)
但是,在民主党方面,安德鲁杨,然后你昨天有 - 皮特Buttigieg

announcing officially, jumping into the race.(13)
正式宣布,跳入比赛。

But talk about Andrew Yang and what his earlymessage is.(14)
但谈谈安德鲁杨和他的早期信息是什么。

AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: Well,his early message seems to be one of a revolutionary,(15)
AMY WALTER,库克政治报告:嗯,他的早期信息似乎是一个革命者,

right?(16)
对?

I'm not coming in just to be a candidate tothrow some rather traditional ideas around.(17)
我不会只是为了成为一个候选人,抛出一些相当传统的想法。

I'm going to come in here and put these big,sort of dramatic ideas, like the universal(18)
我会来这里,把这些大的,戏剧性的想法,如普遍的想法

basic income, like legalizing a small amountof heroin, these sorts of things, with the(19)
基本收入,比如合法化少量海洛因,这些东西,与

idea perhaps that it gets to be part of theconversation.(20)
也许这个想法可以成为谈话的一部分。

Even if he is not the candidate, he is notthe front-runner, he doesn't stay in for very(21)
即使他不是候选人,他也不是领跑者,他不会留下来

long, that it sparks a conversation withinthe rest of the party.(22)
很长一段时间,它引发了党内其他人的谈话。

This is what happens at this point in mostcampaigns, right?(23)
这是大多数广告系列中此时发生的情况,对吧?

You have a whole bunch of candidates.(24)
你有很多候选人。

The field ultimately winnows out.(25)
该领域最终胜出。

But many candidates try to put as many ideasout there as possible, hoping that if they(26)
但许多候选人试图尽可能多地提出想法,希望如果他们这样做

can't last, maybe one of their ideas will.(27)
不能持久,也许他们的一个想法会。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Can someone like Yang shapethe race in some way, do you think?(28)
JUDY WOODRUFF:像杨这样的人可以用某种方式塑造比赛,你觉得呢?

LISA LERER, The New York Times: He may.(29)
LISA LERER,纽约时报:他可能。

I think it tells us -- his popularity -- he'salready qualified for the debate stage -- tells(30)
我认为它告诉我们 - 他的受欢迎程度 - 他已经有资格进入辩论阶段 - 告诉我们

us something about the media environment,the political environment we live in now.(31)
我们关于媒体环境,我们现在所处的政治环境。

This is someone who really got those -- metthose debate requirements by appearing on(32)
这是真正得到这些的人 - 通过出现来满足这些辩论要求

popular podcasts.(33)
流行的播客。

He's like a podcast candidate.(34)
他就像一个播客候选人。

That's something we wouldn't have seen 10years ago.(35)
这是10年前我们不会看到的。

And he's kind of this quirky candidate withsome views that are, you point out, you know,(36)
而且他是一个这个古怪的候选人,有一些观点,你指出,你知道,

fairly left-wing, like he supports Medicarefor all, and other things like cutting the(37)
相当左翼,就像他支持所有人的医疗保险,以及其他东西,如削减

federal work force by 15 to 20 percent, whichis something that wouldn't really ring well(38)
联邦劳动力的比例为15%至20%,这是不太可能的

with a lot of Democrats.(39)
有很多民主党人。

But I think we're in a place now where, becauseof the Internet, because of podcasts, you(40)
但是我认为我们现在所处的地方,因为互联网,因为播客,你

can see candidates get on the stage, havean influence in the debate, without really(41)
可以看到候选人上台,在辩论中产生影响,没有真正的

needing any party support whatsoever.(42)
需要任何政党支持。

AMY WALTER: That's a really good point.(43)
AMY WALTER:这是一个非常好的观点。

And it brings to the bigger issue now, we'rein this stage that they used to call the invisible(44)
现在它带来了更大的问题,我们处于这个阶段他们曾经称之为隐形

primary, right, before voters get a chanceto weigh in.(45)
小学,右,在选民有机会权衡之前。

All these other factors are supposed to influencethe field.(46)
所有这些其他因素都应该影响这个领域。

Or, at least, in the past, they had.(47)
或者,至少在过去,他们有过。

And so some of those were things that werewritten rules and unwritten rules.(48)
所以其中一些是写成规则和不成文规则的东西。

The written rules that have changed, the Democrats,one, you can get on stage now in a debate(49)
已经改变的书面规则,民主党人,你可以在辩论中上台

not just by where you're polling, but howmany individual donors that you have put together.(50)
不仅仅是你在哪里进行投票,而是你有多少个人捐赠。

And the superdelegate rules changing.(51)
并且超级明确规则正在发生变化。

At this point, a candidate could become afront-runner by saying, I have 150 superdelegates(52)
在这一点上,候选人可以成为一个领跑者说,我有150名超级代表

already before any ballots were cast.(53)
在任何选票投票之前。

And then the unwritten rules, which are nowno longer being OK among Democratic candidates,(54)
然后是不成文的规则,民主党候选人现在不再适用,

to take money from certain sources, superPACs, from big corporate donors.(55)
从大企业捐赠者的某些来源,超级PAC中获取资金。

Now everybody wants to have small donors,which is fine, but it means that you're not(56)
现在每个人都想拥有小捐赠者,这很好,但这意味着你不是

going to get these eye-popping fund-raisingnumbers, like you saw in 2016 or 2007.(57)
就像你在2016年或2007年看到的那样,这些令人瞩目的筹款数字将会如此。

And the media has also, I think, weighed intoo, saying, maybe we made a mistake in 2016(58)
我认为,媒体也在考虑,也许我们在2016年犯了一个错误

by trying to label people front-runners tooearly.(59)
试图过早地标记人们的领先者。

So now we're going to stay out.(60)
所以现在我们要留在外面。

We're not going to have the same rush to putthe front-runner mantle on someone.(61)
我们不会急于将领跑者的衣钵放在某人身上。

JUDY WOODRUFF: I do want to ask you both aboutPete Buttigieg, who was the flavor of the(62)
JUDY WOODRUFF:我想问你们两个关于Pete Buttigieg的人,他的风味是

month, I guess.(63)
一个月,我想。

But now we're asking, is he more than that?(64)
但现在我们问,他不仅仅是这样吗?

But I also want to ask you about the money.(65)
但我也想问你这笔钱。

But, quickly, about Buttigieg, is he showingsome staying power, Lisa?(66)
但是,很快,关于Buttigieg,他是否表现出一些持久力,Lisa?

LISA LERER: Well, I think he's shown thathe can get himself into maybe the second or(67)
LISA LERER:嗯,我认为他表明他可以让自己进入第二或第二

third tier of the race, depending how you'recounting.(68)
第三级比赛,取决于你的计算方式。

And who really knows how we're counting thesedays?(69)
谁真的知道我们这些日子的数量?

(LAUGHTER)
JUDY WOODRUFF: That's true.(70)
JUDY WOODRUFF:那是真的。

LISA LERER: But the question for him now is,can he build out an organization?(71)
LISA LERER:但他现在面临的问题是,他能否建立一个组织?

Can he stay there?(72)
他能呆在那儿吗?

Can he do the kinds of things that you needto do not just to raise money, but to eventually(73)
他可以做你需要做的事情,不仅仅是为了筹集资金,而是为了最终

actually win some votes?(74)
实际赢得一些选票?

And that's the great unknown.(75)
这就是伟大的未知数。

We can't know that.(76)
我们无法知道。

But we certainly see that he's a guy who sawa moment and capitalized it, in a way that(77)
但我们当然看到他是一个看到片刻并以某种方式将其资本化的人

put him into this race in a bigger way.(78)
让他以更大的方式参加这场比赛。

I mean, this is someone who is a mayor ofa mid to small-sized city whose biggest national(79)
我的意思是,这是一个中小型城市的市长,其中最大的国家

accomplishment was losing the race for DemocraticNational Committee chairman.(80)
成就正在失去民主党全国委员会主席的竞选。

Hat's not traditionally been a qualificationfor the presidency.(81)
帽子传统上不是总统职位的资格。

But for the reasons you point out, we're inuncharted territory.(82)
但由于你指出的原因,我们处于未知领域。

And who knows.(83)
谁知道呢

AMY WALTER: Right.(84)
AMY WALTER:对。

JUDY WOODRUFF: He's defied all the -- whatwe thought used to be the rules.(85)
JUDY WOODRUFF:他藐视所有 - 我们曾经认为的规则。

AMY WALTER: Although he does fit very wellfor this moment.(86)
AMY WALTER:虽然他现在确实非常适合。

That's the great thing about politics, isyou can plan your whole life to be perfectly(87)
这是关于政治的伟大之处,你可以计划你的整个生活是完美的

ready to be president on this date, right?(88)
准备好在这个日子担任总统,对吗?

In 2020, I will have all of -- I will havechecked all the boxes.(89)
在2020年,我将全部 - 我将检查所有的盒子。

But the moment might not be right for you.(90)
但这一刻可能不适合你。

You have to be in this moment.(91)
你必须在这一刻。

And what we saw in 2018, remember, the candidateswho got the most attention, who raised the(92)
我们在2018年所看到的,记住,最受关注的候选人,谁提出了这个

most money, who were the most successful werethe ones who were so different from anything(93)
最赚钱的是那些与众不同的人

that we had ever seen before.(94)
我们以前见过的。

They were brand-new to politics.(95)
他们对政治来说是全新的。

They came from outside of the traditionalavenues for going into Congress.(96)
他们来自传统的进入国会的途径之外。

And Pete Buttigieg, while he's had a longpolitical career, he doesn't act or sound(97)
和Pete Buttigieg一样,虽然他的政治生涯很长,但他并没有采取行动或发声

like your traditional presidential candidate,for sure.(98)
就像你的传统总统候选人一样。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, meanwhile, just quickly,Lisa, the president, President Trump's campaign(99)
JUDY WOODRUFF:与此同时,很快,丽莎,总统,特朗普总统的竞选活动

announced this record-breaking number, tensof millions of dollars, he's raised just in(100)
宣布这个创纪录的数字,数千万美元,他刚刚筹集到

the first quarter of this year.(101)
今年第一季度。

LISA LERER: Yes, that was a fairly eye-poppingnumber.(102)
LISA LERER:是的,这是一个相当引人注目的数字。

And part of that, of course, is because, unlikeany other president, he started running for(103)
当然,其中一部分原因在于,与任何其他总统不同,他开始竞选

reelection the second he won his first term.(104)
第二届他赢得了第一个任期。

So it give him time to raise some money.(105)
所以给他时间筹集一些钱。

But I also think it's something that the Democratshave been watching closely.(106)
但我也认为这是民主党一直密切关注的事情。

There has been this -- a lot of energy onthe Democratic side about not taking money(107)
有这样的 - 民主党方面有很多关于不拿钱的精力

from super PACs, not taking corporate donations,not holding big fund-raisers.(108)
来自超级PAC,没有接受企业捐款,没有举办大型筹款活动。

And that's something that the grassroots ofthe party, the activists in the party certainly(109)
这就是党的基层,党内的积极分子当然

like.(110)
喜欢。

It's something that the donors of the party,well, it makes them a little bit nervous.(111)
这是党的捐助者的事,嗯,这让他们有点紧张。

And I think seeing that number is only goingto sort of exaggerate and increase that divide(112)
我认为看到这个数字只会夸大其词,增加这种差距

and that debate within the Democratic side.(113)
民主党内部的辩论。

AMY WALTER: Yes.(114)
AMY WALTER:是的。

In 2008, it was very different.(115)
2008年,情况大不相同。

Obviously, there was not an incumbent Republicanpresident at that moment.(116)
显然,当时没有现任共和党总统。

But if you look at how much money just HillaryClinton and Barack Obama at this moment in(117)
但是,如果你看看希拉里克林顿和巴拉克奥巴马此时有多少钱

time in 2007 raised, they raised $50 milliontogether.(118)
在2007年筹集的时间里,他们一起筹集了5000万美元。

JUDY WOODRUFF: At this moment.(119)
JUDY WOODRUFF:此刻。

AMY WALTER: I think, at this moment, you haveto put probably four or five candidates together(120)
AMY WALTER:我想,在这一刻,你必须把四五个候选人放在一起

right now to equal the $50 million.(121)
现在等于5000万美元。

So, Bernie Sanders, just to give you an idea,raised $18 million.(122)
所以,伯尼桑德斯,只是为了给你一个想法,筹集了1800万美元。

The next closest, Harris, Senator Harris,raised $12 million, right.(123)
下一个最接近的哈里斯,参议员哈里斯,筹集了1200万美元,对吧。

Those are the top fund-raisers.(124)
这些是筹款最多的筹款人。

JUDY WOODRUFF: How do you remember these numbers,Amy Walter?(125)
JUDY WOODRUFF:你怎么记得这些数字,Amy Walter?

AMY WALTER: I just -- I burned it into mybrain.(126)
AMY WALTER:我只是 - 我把它烧进了大脑。

(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
JUDY WOODRUFF: She's got it written on theback on her hand.(127)
JUDY WOODRUFF:她的手背上写着她。

AMY WALTER: I do.(128)
AMY WALTER:我知道。

I cheated.(129)
我作弊了。

(LAUGHTER)
AMY WALTER: But it definitely stands out.(130)
AMY WALTER:但它绝对引人注目。

And it goes to Lisa's point, which is, whenyou are raising money with this many people,(131)
这是Lisa的观点,也就是说,当你和这么多人一起筹款时,

this -- with these new unwritten rules, raisingthe big, big dollars is going to stand out.(132)
这一点 - 通过这些新的不成文规则,提高大额美元将会脱颖而出。

LISA LERER: And we don't know how any of thisplays.(133)
LISA LERER:我们不知道这有何影响。

AMY WALTER: Right.(134)
AMY WALTER:对。

LISA LERER: We have never seen a presidentialrace that's so heavily dependent on small(135)
LISA LERER:我们从来没有见过过于依赖小规模的总统竞选

donors.(136)
捐助者。

There's been midterms, 2018.(137)
2018年有中期。

Democrats did quite well.(138)
民主党人做得很好。

But small donors will give to a bunch of differentcandidates.(139)
但小捐助者会给一堆不同的候选人。

We just -- in a midterm, when they're notcompeting against each other.(140)
我们只是 - 在中期,当他们没有互相竞争时。

We don't know whether they will give $5 toa bunch of different presidential candidates(141)
我们不知道他们是否会给一群不同的总统候选人5美元

or $100 or whatever it is.(142)
或100美元或其他任何东西。

So no one quite knows how this all shakesout.(143)
所以没有人完全知道这一切是如何震撼的。

And that's what makes these big donors prettynervous.(144)
这就是让这些大捐赠者非常紧张的原因。

AMY WALTER: Yes.(145)
AMY WALTER:是的。

JUDY WOODRUFF: So fascinating to be thinkingabout this right now in early April, with(146)
JUDY WOODRUFF:现在4月初考虑这个问题非常有意思

weeks and weeks to go.(147)
几周和几周。

(LAUGHTER)
AMY WALTER: It's never too early.(148)
AMY WALTER:这永远不会太早。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And more announcements to come.(149)
JUDY WOODRUFF:还有更多的公告。

AMY WALTER: Yes.(150)
AMY WALTER:是的。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Amy Walter, Lisa Lerer, PoliticsMonday, thank you.(151)
JUDY WOODRUFF:Amy Walter,Lisa Lerer,Politics周一,谢谢。


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