Fallout from leaked memos about Trump prompts UK ambassador to resign
2019-07-10 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: It was unvarnished and directdiplomatic analysis from one-half of what's(1)
朱迪·伍德夫夫(JUDY WOODRUFF):对于那些人的一半,这是毫不掩饰和直接的外交分析

known as the special relationship.(2)
被称为特殊关系。

And it was never meant to be made public.(3)
它从来没有被公开过。

In a series of what we're supposed to be secretdiplomatic cables back to London published(4)
在一系列我们应该是秘密的外交电报回到伦敦出版

last weekend, Sir Kim Darroch, Britain's ambassadorto the U.S., variously described President(5)
上周末,英国驻美大使金·达罗赫爵士对总统进行了不同的描述

Trump and his White House as -- quote -- "insecure,inept and incompetent."(6)
特朗普和他的白宫 - 引用 - “不安全,无能和无能”。

A few days later, President Trump said thefeeling was mutual.(7)
几天后,特朗普总统说这种感觉是相互的。

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:The ambassador has not served the U.K. well.(8)
DONALD TRUMP,美国总统:大使并没有很好地为英国服务。

I can tell you that.(9)
我可以告诉你。

We're not big fans of that man.(10)
我们不是那个男人的忠实粉丝。

And he has not served the U.K. well.(11)
他并没有很好地为英国服务。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Just yesterday, the presidenttweeted that Darroch is -- quote -- "a very(12)
JUDY WOODRUFF:就在昨天,总统发推文说Darroch是 - 引用 - “非常

stupid guy" and again criticized British PrimeMinister Theresa May for her handling of Brexit(13)
愚蠢的家伙“并再次批评英国首相特丽莎梅对英国退欧的处理

negotiations.(14)
谈判。

But the final straw came last night, whenBoris Johnson, the front-runner in the race(15)
但昨晚最后一根稻草出现在比赛的领跑者鲍里斯·约翰逊身上

to replace Theresa May, refused to say thathe wouldn't fire Darroch as ambassador.(16)
取代Theresa May,拒绝说他不会解雇Darroch担任大使。

Hours later, Darroch, who has been Britain'sambassador to the U.S. since 2016, resigned.(17)
几个小时后,自2016年以来一直担任英国驻美大使的达罗什辞职。

In a letter, he wrote: "The current situationis making it impossible for me to carry out(18)
在一封信中,他写道:“目前的情况使我无法实施

my role as I would like."(19)
我想按照自己的意愿行事。“

Today, British Prime Minister Theresa Mayexpressed support for Darroch.(20)
今天,英国首相特蕾莎·梅表示支持达罗什。

THERESA MAY, British Prime Minister: Sir Kimhas given a lifetime of service to the United(21)
THERESA MAY,英国首相:金正日先生为联合国服务一生

Kingdom.(22)
王国。

And we owe him an enormous debt of gratitude.(23)
我们欠他巨大的感激之情。

Good government depends on public servantsbeing able to give full and frank advice.(24)
良好的政府取决于公务员能够提供充分和坦率的建议。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, earlier today, Johnsonseemed to backtrack.(25)
JUDY WOODRUFF:而且,今天早些时候,约翰逊似乎退缩了。

QUESTION: You weren't going to back him.(26)
问题:你不会支持他。

You said last night you weren't going to backhim.(27)
你昨晚说过你不会支持他。

BORIS JOHNSON, Former British Foreign Secretary:No, on the contrary.(28)
BORIS JOHNSON,前英国外交大臣:不,恰恰相反。

My view is, it's wrong to drag civil servantsinto the political arena.(29)
我的观点是,将公务员拖入政治舞台是错误的。

That's what I think.(30)
那就是我所想的。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And now the view of this diplomaticrift from Sir Peter Westmacott, who, among(31)
JUDY WOODRUFF:现在看看彼得·韦斯特马科特爵士的外交裂痕

his postings as a British ambassador and diplomat,served as Kim Darroch's predecessor here in(32)
他作为英国大使和外交官的职位,曾担任金达罗的前任

Washington from 2012 to 2016.(33)
华盛顿从2012年到2016年。

Sir Peter Westmacott, welcome back to theprogram.(34)
Peter Westmacott爵士,欢迎回到该计划。

Did Ambassador Darroch have to step down today?(35)
达罗克大使今天必须下台吗?

PETER WESTMACOTT, Former British Ambassadorto the United States: Thank you, Judy.(36)
前英国驻美国大使PETER WESTMACOTT:谢谢Judy。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Did the ambassador have to...(37)
JUDY WOODRUFF:大使是否必须......

PETER WESTMACOTT: It seems to me that it washis choice.(38)
PETER WESTMACOTT:在我看来,这是他的选择。

It was his choice to do so.(39)
这是他的选择。

He wasn't recalled.(40)
他没有被召回。

He wasn't asked to resign.(41)
他没有被要求辞职。

But I think that he had concluded that thepressures on his family and his ability to(42)
但我认为他已经得出结论,他的家庭和他的能力的压力

do the job, because he was being frozen outof access to the White House, for the time(43)
做这项工作,因为当时他正被冻结在白宫外面

being anyway, and perhaps the final straw,as you put it, of noticing that person most(44)
无论如何,也许是最后一根稻草,就像你说的那样,注意到那个人最多

likely to be the next British prime ministerwasn't going to back him on television last(45)
可能是下一任英国首相,最后不会在电视上支持他

night, made him feel, I think it's probablybest if I stand aside, and we resolve this(46)
晚上,让他觉得,我认为如果我站在一边可能是最好的,我们解决这个问题

by somebody else being appointed to take myplace.(47)
由其他人被任命接替我的位置。

So, did he have to go?(48)
那么,他必须去吗?

No.(49)
没有。

It was his choice.(50)
这是他的选择。

Personally, I regret it, because I don't thinkan ambassador doing an excellent job should(51)
就个人而言,我感到遗憾,因为我认为大使做得不好

be drummed out of office for doing nothingwrong.(52)
因为无所事事而被迫离开办公室。

But I think it was his decision, as I say.(53)
但正如我所说,我认为这是他的决定。

JUDY WOODRUFF: What does it say, though, thatBoris Johnson, who is seen as the front-runner,(54)
JUDY WOODRUFF:尽管如此,Boris Johnson被视为领跑者,

the favorite to win, the race for prime minister,didn't vigorously stand by him?(55)
赢得胜利的最爱,总理竞选,没有大力支持他?

PETER WESTMACOTT: I think it takes us straightinto domestic politics, which are frankly(56)
PETER WESTMACOTT:我认为这需要我们直接进入国内政治,坦率地说

a bit of a mess at the moment.(57)
此刻有点乱。

We have had three years going around in circlestrying to work out how to make Brexit happen.(58)
我们已经有三年的时间绕圈子试图弄清楚如何让英国退欧发生。

And we are also now in the middle of a leadershipcontest for the Conservative Party which is(59)
我们现在也正处于保守党的领导力竞赛中

going to determine who the next prime ministeris after Theresa May.(60)
在Theresa May之后决定下一任总理是谁。

Boris Johnson, front-runner, but needs thesupport of the right-wing, hard-line Brexiteers(61)
鲍里斯约翰逊,领先,但需要右翼,强硬的Brexiteers的支持

within his party when the votes are cast inthe coming days.(62)
在他的党内,在未来几天投票。

And I think that part of this is that KimDarroch has been accused of being soft on(63)
我认为这部分原因是Kim Darroch被指责软弱

Brexit, of a pro-European, and so on.(64)
脱欧,亲欧洲,等等。

So I think Boris Johnson wasn't going to supportthe ambassador unequivocally.(65)
所以我认为鲍里斯·约翰逊不会毫不含糊地支持大使。

The second point is that he thinks he's gota close relationship with Donald Trump.(66)
第二点是他认为他与唐纳德特朗普有着密切的关系。

And he thinks that's going to be importantwhen he becomes prime minister, if he becomes(67)
而且他认为,如果他成为总理,那么他将变得重要

prime minister, and that this may be the keyto making a success of Brexit with nice new(68)
总理,这可能是英国退欧成功的关键

trade deals.(69)
贸易协议。

So I suspect it was partly that he wasn'tgoing to get on the wrong side of the president.(70)
所以我怀疑部分原因是他不会偏袒总统。

This morning, asked about it, he seemed tobe taking another view.(71)
今天早上,问起来,他似乎又采取了另一种观点。

There was, after all, very strong supportin Parliament for Kim Darroch, for the position(72)
毕竟,议会对Kim Darroch的支持非常强烈

he'd been left in, and I think for the principledway in which he decided to resign and stand(73)
他被留下了,我想他决定辞职和站立的原则性方式

aside for the public good.(74)
除了公益之外。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Is it significant, though,that in terms of, overall, what Boris Johnson(75)
JUDY WOODRUFF:从整体上看,鲍里斯·约翰逊是否具有重要意义

did, that he seems to be deferring to theUnited States, deferring to President Trump's(76)
是的,他似乎正在推迟到美国,顺从特朗普总统

wishes?(77)
希望?

PETER WESTMACOTT: I think that we need tokeep in mind, what is this all about?(78)
PETER WESTMACOTT:我认为我们需要记住,这是什么一回事?

This is about a totally improper and probablyillegal leak of some sensitive communications.(79)
这是一些完全不正确的,可能是非法泄漏的一些敏感通信。

That's the heart of it.(80)
这是它的核心。

And then it's also, I would say, in part,about a very sharp perhaps overreaction from(81)
而且,我会说,部分地说,也许是一个非常尖锐的可能过度反应

the president.(82)
总统。

One day's tweets is one thing, but two andthree days of it, and very rude remarks about(83)
有一天的推文是一回事,但两天和三天的推文,以及非常粗鲁的评论

Trump -- about Kim Darroch and about TheresaMay, much ruder than things he said about(84)
特朗普 - 关于金达罗什和关于特蕾莎梅的事情,比他所说的事情要严厉得多

a number of other heads of governments andrepresentatives of other governments who have(85)
其他一些政府首脑和其他政府的代表

behaved far, far worse, if I might say so,I think that is a part of it.(86)
表现得更远,更糟糕的是,如果我可以这么说,我认为这是其中的一部分。

The Boris Johnson part of it is, in a sense,a sideline.(87)
从某种意义上说,鲍里斯约翰逊的一部分是副业。

But I think what we have seen is an indicationof the importance he attaches to getting everybody(88)
但我认为我们所看到的是表明他重视每个人的重要性

to support him within the Conservative Partywhen they vote for the new leader of that(89)
当他们投票支持新的领导人时,支持他在保守党内部

party.(90)
派对。

That's what it's about.(91)
这就是它的意义所在。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Is there informed guessing,speculation or solid reporting right now in(92)
JUDY WOODRUFF:现在是否有明智的猜测,猜测或可靠的报道

London as to how these sensitive secret cableswere made public?(93)
伦敦关于这些敏感的秘密电缆是如何公开的?

PETER WESTMACOTT: Yes, there's a great deal,Judy.(94)
PETER WESTMACOTT:是的,有很多,Judy。

It's pretty unprecedented, not totally.(95)
这是前所未有的,而不是完全的。

You have had WikiLeaks dumping lots of cablesin the United States.(96)
你曾经让维基解密在美国倾倒大量电缆。

We have had people from time to time makingpublic documents that shouldn't be made public.(97)
我们不时有人制作不应公开的公开文件。

And some of these were quite sensitive, butthey were not earth-shattering.(98)
其中一些非常敏感,但它们并没有惊天动地。

One senior member of the United States Senatesaid to me yesterday, this seems to me to(99)
美国参议院的一名高级成员昨天对我说,这在我看来

be reporting based on a typical British understatement.(100)
根据典型的英国轻描淡写进行报道。

(LAUGHTER)
PETER WESTMACOTT: So, I think there was nothingthere that was tremendously liable to cause(101)
PETER WESTMACOTT:所以,我认为那里没有任何东西可以造成极大的责任

offense.(102)
罪行。

So, I think that's what -- that's what Kimwas doing.(103)
所以,我认为那就是 - 这就是金正在做的事情。

Who did it?(104)
谁干的?

Who caused the leak?(105)
谁造成了泄密?

We don't know.(106)
我们不知道。

There's an inquiry taking place at the moment.(107)
目前正在进行调查。

It looks as though he's being caught up inthis battle for the future of the Conservative(108)
看起来好像他正在为保守党的未来而陷入困境

Party and the battle about whether professionalsshould still be in charge of key negotiations(109)
党和关于专业人士是否应该仍然负责关键谈判的争论

representing the British government, or whetherthere should be more political appointments,(110)
代表英国政府,或者是否应该有更多的政治任命,

because there is gossip that one of the reasonswhy this was done was to get Kim out of the(111)
因为有八卦这样做的原因之一就是让Kim退出了

job, to stop any ordinary other diplomat,somebody like me, getting a job in his place,(112)
工作,阻止任何普通的其他外交官,像我这样的人,找到他的工作,

and ensure that there was a pro-Trump, pro-Brexitpolitician installed in his place.(113)
并确保在他的位置安装了亲特朗普,支持英国脱欧的政治家。

But, at the moment, we honestly don't know.(114)
但是,目前,我们老实说不知道。

That's why the inquiry is so important.(115)
这就是为什么调查如此重要。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And finally, just quickly,as a former -- as a diplomat, do you -- is(116)
JUDY WOODRUFF:最后,很快,作为一名前任 - 作为外交官,你是 -

this episode going to make it less likelythat diplomats are going to be willing to(117)
这一集将使外交官不太愿意这样做

speak candidly in their communications backto their own governments?(118)
在他们回复自己政府的沟通中坦率地说话?

PETER WESTMACOTT: I think that is a real risk.(119)
PETER WESTMACOTT:我认为这是一个真正的风险。

To be honest, we have seen this before.(120)
说实话,我们以前见过这个。

After WikiLeaks and after one or two otherleaks which have been made over the last few(121)
在维基解密之后以及在过去几次之后发生的一两次其他泄漏之后

years, I have noticed colleagues of mine feelingthat they better be very wary of what they(122)
多年来,我注意到我的同事们觉得他们最好对这些事情保持警惕

commit to print, rather than what they sayin person or sometimes over a secure telephone.(123)
承诺打印,而不是他们亲自或有时通过安全电话说。

I'm hoping that this inquiry will get to thebottom of it, and will show that this was(124)
我希望这个调查能够触及它的底部,并且会表明这个问题

a one-off caused by some political -- politicalstratagem or maneuver, and that it doesn't(125)
由一些政治 - 政治策略或策略引起的一次性,而事实并非如此

become a symptom of a different culture, whichmeans that officials cannot do their jobs,(126)
成为不同文化的症状,这意味着官员不能做好自己的工作,

cannot tell truth to power, cannot tell honestlywhat they think is going on in the countries(127)
不能说实话的力量,不能说实话,他们认为这些国家正在发生什么

where they are based, if they are diplomats.(128)
他们所在的地方,如果他们是外交官。

Because I think, if this is part of a newculture, rather than a one-off, then it certainly(129)
因为我认为,如果这是一种新文化的一部分,而不是一次性的话,那肯定是

will, as you suggest, make people less willingto do their jobs properly.(130)
正如你的建议,会让人们不太愿意正确地完成他们的工作。

And they will be of much less value to thegovernments that they represent abroad.(131)
而且他们对他们在国外代表的政府的价值要小得多。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Sir Peter Westmacott, the formerBritish ambassador to the United States, thank(132)
JUDY WOODRUFF:前英国驻美国大使彼得·韦斯特马科特爵士,谢谢

you.(133)
您。


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