Journalist Mohamed Fahmy on ‘brutal’ experience in Egyptian supermax prison
2015-10-17 00:15:34


HARI SREENIVASAN: Journalist Mohamed Fahmy returned home to Canada this week, the end of a long saga that began in Egypt almost two years ago.(1)
HARI SREENIVASAN:记者 Mohamed Fahmy 回到加拿大本周,结束了几乎两年前开始在埃及的长篇。

Chief foreign affairs correspondent Margaret Warner sat with him for his first American interview.(2)
首席外事记者玛格丽特 · 华纳跟他坐他第一次美国采访。

MARGARET WARNER: This din of everyday life in downtown Toronto is new again for Mohamed Fadel Fahmy and his wife, Marwa Omara, three weeks after his sudden release from an Egyptian prison.(3)
MARGARET WARNER:在市中心的日常生活这 din 多伦多是新再次为 Mohamed 德尔 · 法米和他的妻子,马尔瓦 Omara,三个星期后他突然从埃及监狱释放。

The Canadian-Egyptian journalist was pardoned September 23 by President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi, ending a nearly-two-year ordeal.(4)
加拿大 — 埃及记者被赦免 9 月 23 日由总统阿卜杜勒 · 法塔赫 El-茜茜,结束近两年的痛苦经历。

MOHAMED FAHMY, Former Cairo Bureau Chief, Al Jazeera English: Our families have suffered so much.(5)
穆罕默德 · 法赫米前, 开罗分社社长,半岛电视台英语频道: 我们的家庭遭受了这么多。

MARGARET WARNER: Fahmy, a longtime CNN producer and Los Angeles Times writer, was the new Cairo bureau chief for Al-Jazeera’s English channel,(6)
MARGARET WARNER:法赫米,长期 CNN 制作人和洛杉矶时报 》 的作家,是新的开罗分社主任半岛电视台英语频道,

when he and two colleagues, Baher Mohamed and Peter Greste, were arrested in their Cairo hotel on terror charges December 29, 2013..(7)
当他和两位同事,Baher Mohamed 和彼得 Greste 在被捕恐怖指控他们开罗酒店 2013 年 12 月 29 日。

The raid was quickly broadcast on Egyptian television.(8)
Raid 很快播出埃及电视台。

Thus began a Kafkaesque journey through Egypt’s judicial system, just months after then-General Sisi’s ouster of the elected president, Mohammed Morsi’s of the Muslim Brotherhood.(9)
因此开始了卡夫卡式的旅程,埃及的司法系统,通过几个月后当选总统,穆尔西 Mohammed 穆斯林兄弟会的那一般思思下台。

The three were initially charged with aiding and promoting the Brotherhood, which had just been branded a terrorist organization.(10)
三最初被控协助和促进的兄弟会,只是烙一个恐怖组织。

Al-Jazeera is owned by the government of Qatar, which continued to back the Brotherhood even after Morsi’s ouster.(11)
半岛电视台是由政府拥有的卡塔尔,继续甚至在穆尔下台后回穆斯林兄弟会。

Caged in court, Fahmy emphatically denied the charges.(12)
囚禁在法院,Fahmy 断然否认指控。

MOHAMED FAHMY: Evidence? I don’t even see it. Do you see it? I don’t see it.(13)
MOHAMED FAHMY:证据呢?我甚至不这么认为。你看到它吗?我不这么认为。

MARGARET WARNER: They were convicted and sentenced in June 2014.(14)
MARGARET WARNER:他们被定罪和判刑在 2014 年 6 月。

After a retrial was ordered in January, the Australian Peter Greste was deported.(15)
今年 1 月下令重审后,澳大利亚人彼得 Greste 被递解出境。

But Fahmy and Baher were retried and convicted again this summer, sentenced to three more years.(16)
但 Fahmy Baher 了重试和定罪今年夏天再被判刑三年。

Finally, amid worldwide pressure, and with the help of noted human rights attorney Amal Clooney, President Sisi pardoned them.(17)
最后,在世界范围内的压力,与著名的人权律师 Amal 克鲁尼的帮助,总统思思赦免了他们。

In Toronto yesterday, I began by asking Fahmy about the conditions in which he was held.(18)
在多伦多昨天,我开始通过 Fahmy 询问,他被关押的条件。

MOHAMED FAHMY: The Scorpion super maximum security prison is probably the worst prison in the Middle East.(19)
MOHAMED FAHMY:蝎子超最高安全监狱可能是中东地区最可怕的监狱。

And there, I was in the terrorism wing with Mohamed al-Zawahri, the brother of the Al-Qaida leader,(20)
还有,我在恐怖主义翼与基地组织领导人的弟弟 Mohamed,扎瓦赫里

and ISIS fighters and extremists who had just arrived from Syria and Libya to topple the Egyptian regime and members of the senior Muslim Brotherhood group.(21)
伊西斯战斗机和极端分子,他们刚从叙利亚和利比亚推翻埃及政权和高级的穆斯林兄弟会组的成员。

And it was just surreal, because I am a journalist. What am I doing with these people?(22)
它只是超现实的因为我是一名记者。我与这些人做什么?

And there was no outing, no sunlight, no way of telling time.(23)
还有没有去郊游,没有阳光,没有办法告诉时间。

It was pretty brutal and it was really, really freezing in that cell. And I had a broken shoulder. I was sleeping on the floor, lots of insects.(24)
这是很残酷,这是真的,真的冻结在该单元格中。又一个破碎的肩膀。我正睡在地板上,大量的昆虫。

MARGARET WARNER: Now, this latest State Department human rights report talks about torture, beatings, isolation. Were you subjected to any of that?(25)
MARGARET WARNER:现在,这个最新的美国国务院人权报告谈到酷刑、 殴打、 隔离。你受到任何的吗?

MOHAMED FAHMY: I wasn’t. I had been to three prisons throughout my 438 days in detention.(26)
MOHAMED FAHMY:我不是。过了三个监狱整个我 438 天拘留。

I didn’t see any torture. I was not ill-treated or abused in any way.(27)
我没看到任何酷刑。我不是虐待,或以任何方式被滥用。

Of course, it’s psychologically unbearable. You can’t see your family. You don’t have any more writing material.(28)
当然,它是心理上难以承受。你看不见你的家人。你不要有任何更多的写作材料。

The food is very limited. No, it’s pretty, pretty harsh.(29)
食物是非常有限的。不,它是漂亮的苛刻。

And the fact that you are living with these terrorists, it’s seriously insulting.(30)
这一事实,你住在一起这些恐怖分子,这是严重的侮辱。

Of course, we tried to do what journalists do, and we were interviewing them and trying to understand why — what they’re doing there.(31)
当然,我们试图做记者所做的和我们采访他们,试着去理解为什么 — — 他们那里在做什么。

It was very interesting to dig into their minds especially.(32)
这是非常有趣的特别是深入到他们的想法。

It represented a mirror image of what’s happening in Egypt now, that many of these people are in prison, including some secularists as well, who….(33)
它代表了一个镜像的发生在埃及现在,许多这些人都在监狱里,包括一些世俗主义者们,以及那些......

MARGARET WARNER: You mean the secular activists, the pro-democracy activists.(34)
MARGARET WARNER:你的意思是世俗的积极分子,民运人士。

MOHAMED FAHMY: Yes, who started the revolution in 2011, when we worked together.(35)
MOHAMED FAHMY:是啊,开始革命在 2011 年,我们一起工作。

MARGARET WARNER: Were the jihadists among them as extreme still in their views and beliefs?(36)
MARGARET WARNER:被其中圣战极端仍然在他们的意见和信念吗?

MOHAMED FAHMY: They were as extreme as can be. They were — they have no respect to democracy, humanity.(37)
MOHAMED FAHMY:他们是可以那么极端。他们 — — 他们有没有民主,人性的尊重。

Unfortunately, I was incarcerated during the time of slaying of my friend Steven Sotloff, who had visited me in Cairo before going to Syria, and just seeing them celebrate.(38)
不幸的是,我被关押期间杀死我的朋友 Steven Sotloff,在前去叙利亚,、 只看他们庆祝开罗访问过我的时间。

MARGARET WARNER: When he was beheaded?(39)
MARGARET WARNER:当他被砍头吗?

MOHAMED FAHMY: Yes, when he was beheaded.(40)
MOHAMED FAHMY:是的当他被斩首。

And it was really awful. And, again, it was just really weird seeing them and living with them for a year and realizing that there is no hope for these people.(41)
它是真的很糟糕。,再一次,只是确实很奇怪看到他们和与他们住了一年和实现,这些人没有希望。

They twist the meaning of Islam to suit their unacceptable actions.(42)
他们曲解伊斯兰教以适应他们无法接受的行为。

MARGARET WARNER: Did the Muslim Brotherhood members who were in there, were they cheering at the beheading of Sotloff?(43)
MARGARET WARNER:做在那里的那些穆斯林兄弟会成员,他们在欢呼在斩首 Sotloff 吗?

MOHAMED FAHMY: No, they weren’t. There is a clear distinction between how the Muslim Brotherhood were viewing these extremist actions and what these hardened extremists were saying.(44)
MOHAMED FAHMY:不,他们不是。还有穆斯林兄弟会如何看待这些极端主义行动的明确区分,极端分子在说什么这些硬化。

We sort of had a radio mock show to keep ourselves entertained.(45)
我们种了电台的模仿秀,以保持自己的娱乐。

And we had like a hatch in the door of our cell, because you were in solitary confinement.(46)
我们已经在我们的细胞,门的舱口,像是因为你在禁闭。

You could only see the eyes of the person in front of you in this other cell.(47)
你只能看到你前面的人在此其他单元格的眼睛。

So we’d call everybody to come up to the hatch, and we’d have like a one-hour show.(48)
我们把它叫做大家来到舱口,并且我们会像一个小时的节目。

So, I would play the devil’s advocate and put the extremists and the Muslim Brotherhood on the spot and compare of how they view things.(49)
所以,我会玩魔鬼的主张及极端分子和穆斯林兄弟会当场并比较他们如何看待事物。

MARGARET WARNER: Were you able to take notes?(50)
MARGARET WARNER:是你能做笔记吗?

MOHAMED FAHMY: I did. And I took notes, and I smuggled them out during family visits with my wife.(51)
MOHAMED FAHMY:我做了。我作了笔记,和我走私出来在探亲期间与我的妻子。

MARGARET WARNER: Now, did you manage to communicate with people on the outside somehow?(52)
MARGARET WARNER:现在,你设法以某种方式与外面的人沟通?

MOHAMED FAHMY: Well, my family, when they visited me, my wife used to smuggle in inside the food printouts of articles that had been written outside.(53)
MOHAMED FAHMY:嗯,我的家人,他们来看我时,我的妻子用来走私在里面的食物打印出来的外面写的文章。

And I realized there is a serious movement across the globe, and people were fighting for us. And I — this is what kept me going.(54)
我意识到,世界各地还有严重的运动,人们为争取我们。我 — — 这是让我继续下去。

MARGARET WARNER: So, why do you really think you were arrested? What were the reasons behind it?(55)
MARGARET WARNER:那么,为什么你真的觉得你被捕?其背后的原因是什么?

MOHAMED FAHMY: It was hitting two birds with one step.(56)
MOHAMED FAHMY:它刚刚创下一举两得,第一步。

Egypt was sending a message to journalists that if you don’t toe the government’s line, this could happen to you.(57)
埃及发送一条消息到记者如果你不听话,政府的线,这可能发生在你。

But it was also a message to Qatar, who are die-hard supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood.(58)
但这也是给卡塔尔,那些铁杆支持者的穆斯林兄弟会的留言。

MARGARET WARNER: You and I both covered the Egyptian revolution.(59)
MARGARET WARNER:你和我都覆盖埃及革命。

We know that there were middle-class people, people of all classes in Tahrir Square.(60)
我们知道是有中产阶层人士,在塔利尔广场的各个阶级的人。

And the one thing that united them was, we don’t want to live with autocratic rule of Hosni Mubarak.(61)
美国他们一件事是,我们不想住在一起的 Hosni Mubarak 的专制统治。

Yet now they’re acceding essentially to what many say is an equally repressive kind of rule. Why do you think that is?(62)
然而现在他们正在加入基本上很多人说的是同样压制性的一种规则。你为什么认为那是?

MOHAMED FAHMY: I think people were just fed up after three years of intense protests and killing and chaos on the streets.(63)
MOHAMED FAHMY:我认为人只是受够了,经过三年的激烈抗议和杀戮和街道上的混乱。

And they decided to make sacrifices and accept this new atmosphere.(64)
他们决定作出牺牲,接受这种新的气氛。

I believe the Muslim Brotherhood should have been removed and that they were a cancer of political Islam and extracting them was very important.(65)
我相信穆斯林兄弟会则应该已经消除,他们是一种政治伊斯兰癌症,并提取它们是非常重要的。

But I don’t agree with what happened after that, which was a clampdown on civil liberties and human rights and press freedoms.(66)
但我不同意之后发生了什么,这是对公民自由和人权和新闻自由的压制。

MARGARET WARNER: What do you think the prospects are now for Egypt to ever realize the promise of the Arab spring?(67)
MARGARET WARNER:你觉得前景现为埃及来过实现阿拉伯之春的诺言?

MOHAMED FAHMY: Now, I think the Arab spring is dead and buried.(68)
MOHAMED FAHMY:试想,阿拉伯之春已死亡并埋葬。

In order for Egypt, the country that I love and where I grew up and where I had that dream in Tahrir Square,(69)
为了使埃及,我爱,我在那里长大,在那里我过那样的梦在解放广场,

wants to reach this true democratic state, a lot of work needs to be done.(70)
想要到达这真正的民主国家,很多工作需要做。

MARGARET WARNER: How has this experience changed you?(71)
MARGARET WARNER:这一经验如何改变了你?

MOHAMED FAHMY: Oh, I’m a new man. I’m completely a new man.(72)
MOHAMED FAHMY:哦,我是一个新的人。我完全是一个新的人。

I have also learned to look at the big picture. I forget about the essential things like family and just living a peaceful life.(73)
我也已经学会看大图。我忘记重要的事情,例如家庭和只过着和平的生活。

And I think it will take a while before I go back into journalism.(74)
而且我认为它将需要一段时间之前我回到新闻。

But I do want to reflect on what I have seen inside the prison.(75)
但我想要反思我在监狱里看到了什么。

MARGARET WARNER: From there, we took the new man and his wife, Marwa, out to lunch.(76)
MARGARET WARNER:从那里,我们带的新好男人和他的妻子,马尔瓦,出去吃午饭。

You’re less than a week here. How does it feel?(77)
你在这里不到一周。它是什么感觉?

MOHAMED FAHMY: It’s perfect. We’re just happy all the time. We’re like little kids.(78)
MOHAMED FAHMY:它是完美的。我们所有的时间都很高兴。我们就像小孩子。

It’s surreal, because you come from the Middle East, and the scene there is very charged all time.(79)
这是超现实,因为你来自中东和现场还有非常带电所有时间。

And there’s talk of war. And politics are in your face. And, here, you’re just allowed to relax.(80)
还有谈论战争。政治是在你的脸。而且,在这里,只是允许你放松。

MARWA OMARA, Mohamed Fahmy’s wife: I remember the first time I see him smiling in two years was once we landed in Toronto. He was like a young kid.(81)
MARWA OMARA, Mohamed Fahmy’s wife:我记得第一次见到他两年微笑是一旦我们降落在多伦多。他就像一个年轻的孩子。

MOHAMED FAHMY: Because there are so many people giving us hugs and saying hello and asking for photos. And so I do feel a lot of warmth and love.(82)
MOHAMED FAHMY:因为有这么多人给我们拥抱和说你好和索要照片。并没有做那么多的温暖和爱。

MARGARET WARNER: When you — the two of you go to Vancouver, start your new life?(83)
MARGARET WARNER:当你 — — 你们两个去温哥华,开始新的生活吗?

MARWA OMARA: I’m looking for some stability, do the simpler things like dance, listen to music.(84)
MARWA OMARA:我在寻找一些稳定性,更简单的事情喜欢跳舞,听音乐。

MOHAMED FAHMY: Go to the movies.(85)
MOHAMED FAHMY:去看电影。

MARGARET WARNER: Are you a good dancer?(86)
MARGARET WARNER:你是一个好的舞者吗?

MOHAMED FAHMY: I’m not bad. Not bad when I’m happy, when I’m happy. There was nothing to dance about for the last two years.(87)
MOHAMED FAHMY:我不是坏的。不坏的当我高兴的时候,当我很高兴。没有关于跳舞,过去两年。

But we’re excited to start all over and just have a normal life and just put it all behind us. It’s therapeutic as well to help others.(88)
但我们很兴奋地开始只是有正常的生活,只是把它都在我们的身后。它是治疗以及去帮助别人。

I feel that’s the way of dealing with it, and I think that will help us move forward, and we do want to help,(89)
我感觉的方式处理与它,认为这将帮助我们向前迈进,和我们想帮助,

because we are here because of all the help that we got from others.(90)
因为我们在这里是因为我们从别人那里得到的所有帮助。

MARGARET WARNER: Mohamed and Marwa have begun their own foundation to help other journalists held behind bars.(91)
MARGARET WARNER:Mohamed 和马尔瓦已经开始自己的基金会,帮助其他铁窗后举行的记者。

They describe it as a healing process. I’m Margaret Warner for the PBS NewsHour in Toronto.(92)
他们把它描述为一个疗伤的过程。我在多伦多 PBS 晚间新闻的玛格丽特华纳。


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