Israel has welcomed other political critics. How Trump made Omar and Tlaib different
2019-08-15 00:00:00


AMNA NAWAZ: We return to our top story, Israelbanning two Muslim-American congresswomen(1)
AMNA NAWAZ:我们回到我们的头条新闻,以色列禁止两名穆斯林裔美国女议员

from entry.(2)
从入境。

In a tweet this morning, President Trump saidIsrael would show, quote, great weakness by(3)
特朗普总统在今天早上的一条推文中表示,以色列将通过以下方式表现出极大的弱点

allowing the congresswomen to enter.(4)
允许女议员进入。

He added that the representatives, quote,hate Israel and all Jewish people.(5)
他补充说,代表们引述以色列和所有犹太人的行为。

The president has targeted the two representativesrepeatedly, as part of a four-woman freshman(6)
作为一名四女新生的一部分,总统一再针对这两位代表

Democratic group that's dubbed itself "TheSquad."(7)
被称为“小队”的民主党组织。

Representatives Tlaib and Omar have facedcriticism in the past for their statements(8)
Tlaib和Omar的代表过去曾因其陈述而受到批评

on Israel, which some critics have calledanti-Semitic, and their support for the boycott,(9)
以色列,一些批评者称之为反犹太主义者,以及他们对抵制的支持,

divestment and sanctions, or BDS movement,designed to pressure Israel to leave the Palestinian(10)
剥夺和制裁,或BDS运动,旨在迫使以色列离开巴勒斯坦人

lands and recognize their rights by targetingIsraeli companies, as well as international(11)
以以色列公司和国际公司为目标,承认并承认其权利

companies, universities and other groups thatinvest in Israel.(12)
在以色列投资的公司,大学和其他团体。

In 2017, Israeli lawmakers passed a law thatcan bar entry to people considered advocates(13)
2017年,以色列立法者通过了一项法律,禁止人们进入被认为是拥护者的行列

of the international BDS movement.(14)
国际BDS运动。

Last month, the U.S. House of Representativespassed a resolution condemning the BDS movement(15)
上个月,美国众议院通过了一项谴责BDS运动的决议

as one that, quote, promotes principles ofcollective guilt, mass punishment and group(16)
作为一个引用集体内疚,群众惩罚和群体的原则

isolation.(17)
隔离。

President Trump's stance puts him at oddswith Republican congressmen, like House Minority(18)
特朗普总统的立场使他与众议院少数派等共和党议员发生冲突

Leader Kevin McCarthy who was in Israel thisweek.(19)
领导凯文麦卡锡本周在以色列。

REP.(20)
REP。

KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Speaking with the president,he knows there are people who have differences(21)
KEVIN MCCARTHY(R-CA):在与总统谈话时,他知道有些人有分歧

of opinion.(22)
意见

I think it would be healthy for anyone whohas that opinion, should come just as all(23)
我认为对于那些拥有这种观点的人来说这应该是健康的

these members have, to see, and I feel verysecure in this, anyone that comes with open(24)
这些成员有,看,我觉得这很安全,任何人都有开放

ears, open eyes and an open mind will walkaway with an understanding, just as all these(25)
正如所有这些一样,耳朵,睁开的眼睛和开放的心灵会带着理解而走开

members here do, that this bond is unbreakable.(26)
这里的成员,这种联系是牢不可破的。

AMNA NAWAZ: Israeli Prime Minister BenjaminNetanyahu is in the middle of a close election(27)
AMNA NAWAZ:以色列总理本杰明内塔尼亚胡即将举行大选

campaign, and critics say he can't affordto appear weak while facing criticism of Israel.(28)
竞选活动和评论家说,在面对以色列的批评时,他不能显得软弱无力。

And now for reaction from a former top Israelidiplomat.(29)
现在是以色列前高级外交官的反应。

Danny Ayalon served as deputy foreign ministerfrom 2009 to 2013, and as Israeli ambassador(30)
Danny Ayalon在2009年至2013年期间担任副外交部长,并担任以色列大使

to the United States from 2002 to 2006.(31)
从2002年到2006年到美国。

Ambassador Ayalon, welcome back to the “NewsHour”.(32)
阿亚隆大使,欢迎回到“新闻时报”。

I want to ask you about what the Israeli AmbassadorRon Dermer said last month.(33)
我想问你以色列大使罗恩·德默上个月所说的话。

He said the lawmakers would be allowed tovisit, quote, out of respect for the U.S.(34)
他说立法者将被允许访问,引用,出于对美国的尊重

Congress and the great alliance between Israeland America.(35)
国会和以色列与美国之间的伟大联盟。

That was last month.(36)
那是上个月。

What changed between then and now?(37)
从现在开始到现在有什么变化?

DANNY AYALON, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TOTHE UNITED STATES: All right.(38)
DANNY AYALON,前美国的以色列大使:好吧。

Yes, well, thank you, Amna.(39)
是的,好的,谢谢你,Amna。

I would say two things.(40)
我会说两件事。

First of all, there was an invitation by thebipartisan delegation, and we have had here(41)
首先,两党代表团发出邀请,我们在这里

last week, basically 70 members of Congressfrom both parties headed by both majority(42)
上周,基本上有70名国会议员以双方为首

and minority leader, and it would have beenmuch better for them to come then.(43)
和少数民族的领导者,他们到那时会好得多。

They refused.(44)
他们拒绝了。

And not only that, they have decided on theirown accord to actually ignore Israel, to go(45)
不仅如此,他们还是自己决定实际上不理会以色列

only to the Palestinian side.(46)
只有巴勒斯坦方面。

They are sponsored by an organization, Palestinianone, which is called MIFTAH which supports(47)
它们由巴勒斯坦组织赞助,该组织称为支持MIFTAH

terrorism.(48)
恐怖主义。

And I think that by the latest analysis, thereason for this visit was just a clear provocation(49)
我认为,根据最新分析,这次访问的原因只是一个明显的挑衅

and really to harm and hurt Israeli interests.(50)
并且真的伤害和伤害以色列的利益。

AMNA NAWAZ: I want to be clear about something,Ambassador.(51)
AMNA NAWAZ:我想明确一些事情,大使。

You mention they had been invited previously.(52)
你提到他们之前曾被邀请过。

You are saying if they had visited with thatother delegation, they would have been welcome(53)
你说他们是否曾与其他代表团一起访问过,他们会受到欢迎

in Israel?(54)
在以色列?

DANNY AYALON: By all means.(55)
DANNY AYALON:无论如何。

And, you know, Israel is a free country.(56)
而且,你知道,以色列是一个自由的国家。

We're a democracy.(57)
我们是一个民主国家。

We are not afraid of criticism.(58)
我们不怕批评。

If anything, you know, Israelis are the mostsevere and fierce critics of themselves and(59)
如果有的话,你知道,以色列人是对自己和他们最严厉和最激烈的批评者

of our own government.(60)
我们自己的政府。

AMNA NAWAZ: You tweeted that the Israeli governmentaccepted the U.S. administration's suggestion,(61)
AMNA NAWAZ:你发推文说以色列政府接受了美国政府的建议,

their recommendation, and that's what ledto the ban.(62)
他们的建议,这就是导致禁令的原因。

So how is this to be seen?(63)
那怎么看?

Is this the Israel guy government taking ordersfrom President Trump and the U.S. administration(64)
这是以色列人政府接受特朗普总统和美国政府的命令

on who is allowed in and who is not?(65)
谁被允许谁谁不被允许?

DANNY AYALON: I believe that the main issuewas on the merit of the provocation.(66)
DANNY AYALON:我认为主要问题在于挑衅的优点。

However, what added I’m sure to the decision,although from Jerusalem I hear otherwise,(67)
然而,我确信这个决定,虽然从耶路撒冷我听到,

but nobody can deny the president's tweet,once there is a request from the president(68)
但是,一旦总统提出要求,没有人可以否认总统的推文

of our best friend and ally, you know, theUnited States of America, certainly you have(69)
我们最好的朋友和盟友,你知道,美利坚合众国,当然你有

to heed or you have to take into considerationtheir request.(70)
注意或你必须考虑他们的要求。

So, I’m sure this was also added into themix.(71)
所以,我确信这也被添加到了混音中。

And you can here invoke what we call a waiverbecause of national interest.(72)
你可以在这里引用我们称之为放弃的东西,因为国家利益。

AMNA NAWAZ: Mr. Ambassador, as part of thejustification for denying them entry, Prime(73)
AMNA NAWAZ:大使先生,作为拒绝他们入境的理由的一部分,Prime

Minister Netanyahu said that their supportfor this BDS movement was part of that decision.(74)
内塔尼亚胡部长说,他们对这次BDS运动的支持是该决定的一部分。

Israel has long held itself up as a bastionof democracy in the region.(75)
以色列长期以来一直把自己视为该地区的民主堡垒。

Doesn't this send the message that anyonewho is critical of the government won't be(76)
这不会传达任何批评政府的人都不会这样做的信息

welcome?(77)
欢迎?

DANNY AYALON: Well, Amna, there is a differencebetween a criticism and undermining the very(78)
DANNY AYALON:嗯,Amna,批评与破坏之间存在差异

legitimacy and existence of a state.(79)
合法性和国家的存在。

And democracies also have the right, I wouldsay the obligation to, defend themselves.(80)
民主国家也有权利,我会说有义务为自己辩护。

BDS, unfortunately, is not just calling forboycotts and sanctions against Israel, it's(81)
不幸的是,BDS不只是要求对以色列进行抵制和制裁

not just criticizing any Israeli policy, whichis, of course, fair and legitimate, but actually(82)
不仅批评以色列的任何政策,这当然是公平合法的,实际上也是如此

they are undermining the very existence.(83)
他们正在破坏这种存在。

The battle cry of the BDS movement is basicallyfrom the river to the sea, Palestinian will(84)
BDS运动的战斗口号基本上是从河流到海洋,巴勒斯坦人的意志

be free.(85)
是自由的。

And if you look at the map, from the riverto the sea of the land of Israel, there is(86)
如果你看看地图,从河流到以色列土地的海洋,就有了

no room for any other state, let alone theJewish state.(87)
任何其他国家都没有空间,更不用说犹太国家了。

AMNA NAWAZ: Let me ask you: Israel has alsowelcomed people who have clearly used anti-Semitic(88)
AMNA NAWAZ:让我问你:以色列还欢迎那些明显使用反犹太主义者的人

rhetoric in the past.(89)
过去的修辞。

I’m talking about Hungary's leader ViktorOrban, also an Italian leader, Matteo Salvini.(90)
我说的是匈牙利领导人Viktor Orban,也是意大利领导人Matteo Salvini。

Both of them have been anti-Semites in someof their political language.(91)
他们两人都是一些政治语言的反犹太人。

They were welcomed to Israel.(92)
他们受到了以色列的欢迎。

So, what's the difference?(93)
那么,有什么区别?

DANNY AYALON: They respect the country.(94)
DANNY AYALON:他们尊重这个国家。

They promote cooperation with our country.(95)
他们促进与我国的合作。

And if they did have anti-Semitic -- any references,of course, we would not -- we would not condone(96)
如果他们确实有反犹太主义 - 任何参考,当然,我们不会 - 我们不会宽恕

it and we would call them out.(97)
它,我们会把它们叫出来。

AMNA NAWAZ: Former Ambassador Danny Ayalonjoining us tonight -- thank you very much(98)
AMNA NAWAZ:前大使Danny Ayalon今晚加入我们 - 非常感谢你

for your time.(99)
为你的时间。

DANNY AYALON: My pleasure.(100)
DANNY AYALON:我很高兴。

AMNA NAWAZ: For a lawmaker's perspective now,we turn to Representative Brad Sherman, a(101)
AMNA NAWAZ:现在,对于立法者的观点,我们转向代表布拉德谢尔曼,一个

senior member of the House Foreign AffairsCommittee and a Democrat from California.(102)
众议院外交事务委员会高级成员和加州民主党人。

Congressman Sherman, welcome back to the “NewsHour”.(103)
国会议员谢尔曼,欢迎回到“新闻时报”。

I want to ask you to respond to what you justheard from Ambassador Ayalon there.(104)
我想请你回答你刚才听到的阿亚隆大使所说的话。

He says, look, both Congresswomen Tlaib andOmar would have been welcome had they travelled(105)
他说,看,如果他们旅行,国会女议员Tlaib和Omar都会受到欢迎

with that bipartisan delegation.(106)
两党代表团。

He saw this visit setup as a provocation.(107)
他认为这次访问设置是一种挑衅。

What do you say to that?(108)
你怎么看?

REP.(109)
REP。

BRAD SHERMAN (D-CA): Well, he's trying toput perhaps a better face on it, an Israeli(110)
BRAD SHERMAN(D-CA):嗯,他正试图把一个更好的面孔放在上面,一个以色列人

pride face on it.(111)
骄傲的脸上。

The Israeli government were going to let mytwo colleagues in until they were pressured(112)
以色列政府将让我的两位同事进入,直到他们受到压力

by Trump.(113)
特朗普

Now, it's tough for any country to say they'rebending to that kind of pressure.(114)
现在,任何国家都很难说他们正在屈服于这种压力。

But when you’re a tiny country with onefriend in the world, and you get that kind(115)
但是当你是一个世界上只有一个朋友的小国家的时候,你会得到那样的

of pressure from the president, and especially,foreign countries tend to look at our executive(116)
总统的压力,特别是外国人倾向于看我们的行政人员

as the main source of our power, they don'tfully understand the role of Congress under(117)
作为我们权力的主要来源,他们并不完全了解国会的作用

our Constitution, when you're under that kindof coercive power, you respond to it.(118)
我们的宪法,当你处于这种强制力量之下时,你会回应它。

The fault here is Donald Trump, because whilehe claims to be a friend of Israel, he is(119)
这里的错是唐纳德特朗普,因为虽然他声称自己是以色列的朋友,但他是

trying to delegitimize Israel or at leasthurt Israel with about half the population(120)
试图使以色列合法化或者至少伤害以色列约一半的人口

of the United States, including those whosupport the role of Congress, its oversight(121)
包括那些支持国会作用的美国,其监督

and fact-gathering responsibilities.(122)
和事实收集责任。

So Trump claims to be a friend of Israel.(123)
因此,特朗普声称自己是以色列的朋友。

I call him a pseudo-Zionist.(124)
我称他为伪犹太复国主义者。

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, let me ask you about this.(125)
AMNA NAWAZ:好的,我来问你这件事。

There is a law on the books in Israel from2017.(126)
2017年以色列的书籍有法律规定。

It allows them to ban entry to anyone whois seen as a supporter of this BDS movement.(127)
它允许他们禁止任何被视为BDS运动支持者的人进入。

They have barred from entry other people before.(128)
他们以前禁止进入其他人。

Is it different somehow now because it's twomembers of Congress?(129)
现在它是不同的,因为它是两个国会议员?

BRAD SHERMAN: Israel has welcomed Muslim leaders,Muslim officials from all over the world,(130)
布拉德·谢尔曼:以色列欢迎穆斯林领导人,来自世界各地的穆斯林官员,

including those who are nominally in supportof the Arab boycott of Israel.(131)
包括那些名义上支持阿拉伯抵制以色列的人。

Israel rolled out the red carpet for PresidentSadat when he came to Jerusalem at a time(132)
当以色列人一次来到耶路撒冷时,以色列为总统萨达特推出了红地毯

when his country was at war with Israel technicallyand certainly supported the boycott of Israel.(133)
当他的国家在技术上与以色列交战并肯定支持对以色列的抵制时。

The Israelis have made the right decision,which was to let my two colleagues in.(134)
以色列人做出了正确的决定,就是让我的两位同事进入。

And they were forced out of that in a waythat is harmful to Israel by the coercive(135)
并且他们被迫以强制性的方式对以色列有害的方式

pressure of the president.(136)
总统的压力。

But let's also put in context, and I thinkDanny did this well, this is not your regular(137)
但是我们也提到了背景,我认为丹尼做得很好,这不是你的常规

boycott movement.(138)
抵制运动。

I mean, I’ve got a friend or two who won'tbuy a Toyota because they want Japan to stop(139)
我的意思是,我有一两个不会买丰田的朋友,因为他们希望日本停下来

harvesting whales or stop killing whales.(140)
收获鲸鱼或停止捕杀鲸鱼。

They're not trying to force every Japanesecitizen out of Asia and to be killed or somehow(141)
他们并没有试图强迫每个日本公民离开亚洲,而是被杀或以某种方式被杀害

drifted into the Pacific.(142)
漂流到太平洋。

But the international leaders of the BDS movementare trying -- not the try to get Israel to(143)
但BDS运动的国际领导人正在努力 - 而不是试图让以色列进入

change this or that policy, but to try toremove every Jew from the Middle East.(144)
改变这个或那个政策,但试图从中东移除每个犹太人。

Just as Hitler wanted a Jewish-free Europe,this BDS group wants a Jewish-free Middle(145)
就像希特勒想要一个没有犹太人的欧洲一样,这个BDS小组想要一个没有犹太人的中间人

East.(146)
东。

(CROSSTALK)
AMNA NAWAZ: Well, let me ask you about that,sir.(147)
AMNA NAWAZ:先生,让我问你一下。

Do you believe your colleagues have the rightto support that BDS movement?(148)
您是否相信您的同事有权支持BDS运动?

BRAD SHERMAN: I think that my colleagues supportchanges in the policy of Israel.(149)
布拉德·谢尔曼:我认为我的同事们支持改变以色列的政策。

I have no reason to think that they supportthe idea of excluding every Jew and every(150)
我没有理由认为他们支持排除每个犹太人和每个人的想法

Israeli from the Middle East.(151)
来自中东的以色列人。

AMNA NAWAZ: Sir, before I let you know --(152)
AMNA NAWAZ:先生,在我告诉你之前 -

BRAD SHERMAN: But there are supporters.(153)
布拉德·谢尔曼:但是有支持者。

AMNA NAWAZ: I do know your time is limited,and I want the make sure I ask this of you.(154)
AMNA NAWAZ:我知道你的时间有限,我想确保我问你这个。

Do you worry today's decision to ban boththose members of Congress from entry will(155)
你是否担心今天决定禁止国会议员入境

have an impact on U.S.-Israeli relations?(156)
对美以关系产生影响?

BRAD SHERMAN: Israel has one friend in theworld.(157)
布拉德·谢尔曼:以色列在世界上有一个朋友。

It cannot afford to have only one half ofone friend in the world.(158)
它不能只拥有世界上一个朋友的一半。

Trump is a pseudo-Zionist who has forced inthe name of helping Israel, which is most(159)
特朗普是一个伪犹太复国主义者,他以帮助以色列的名义被迫,这是最多的

pernicious part of it, has forced the Israeligovernment to take an action which will slightly(160)
其中有害的部分,迫使以色列政府采取稍微采取行动

weaken Israeli support here in the UnitedStates.(161)
削弱了以色列在美国的支持。

I think we can recover from this, but it clearlyis not a day when the Israeli government was(162)
我想我们可以从中恢复,但显然不是以色列政府的一天

able to do what it had decided to do, whichwas to admit my two colleagues.(163)
能够做它决定做的事情,这是承认我的两位同事。

AMNA NAWAZ: Democratic Congressman Brad Shermanof California, thank you very much for your(164)
AMNA NAWAZ:加州民主党众议员布拉德谢尔曼,非常感谢你

time.(165)
时间。


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