What new film 'The Report' says about the CIA and post-9/11 torture tactics
2019-11-29 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: Five years ago, the U.S. SenateSelect Committee on Intelligence released(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:五年前,美国参议院情报甄选委员会发布了

a report on the torture tactics the CIA usedon terror suspects after the 9/11 attacks.(2)
关于中情局在9/11袭击之后对恐怖嫌疑人使用的酷刑手段的报告。

That investigation is now the subject of anew film, "The Report."(3)
现在,这项调查已成为一部新电影《报告》的主题。

Jeffrey Brown has a look.(4)
杰弗里·布朗(Jeffrey Brown)看看。

It's part of our ongoing arts and cultureseries, Canvas.(5)
这是我们正在进行的艺术和文化系列“画布”的一部分。

ACTOR: Why did the CIA torture people, lieabout it, and then hide it from history?(6)
演员:中央情报局为什么要折磨人民,撒谎,然后再将其隐藏起来?

JEFFREY BROWN: The story is straight fromthe headlines.(7)
杰弗里·布朗(JEFFREY BROWN):这个故事直接来自头条。

MAN: Better intelligence could have been obtainedby more humane methods.(8)
男人:可以通过更人道的方法获得更好的情报。

MAN: Their report, released by Democrats,contends the tactics failed to produce useful(9)
曼:民主党人发表的报告认为,这种战术未能产生有用的

information.(10)
信息。

GWEN IFILL, "PBS NewsHour": A sweeping Senatereport leveled damning charges against the(11)
GWEN IFILL,“ PBS NewsHour”:参议院的一份详尽报告将针对该组织的指控指控定为水平

Central Intelligence Agency.(12)
中央情报局。

JEFFREY BROWN: "The Report" portrays the real-lifesix-year effort by the Senate Select Committee(13)
杰弗里·布朗(JEFFREY BROWN):“报告”描绘了参议院选择委员会在现实生活中的六年努力

on Intelligence to uncover the CIA's use ofso-called enhanced interrogation techniques(14)
情报局发现中央情报局使用所谓的增强讯问技术

used on terrorism suspects following the 9/11attacks.(15)
在9/11袭击之后用于恐怖主义嫌疑人。

Those were implemented at the suggestion oftwo U.S. Air Force psychologists.(16)
这些是在两名美国空军心理学家的建议下实施的。

The torture proved ineffective, but remainedin practice at CIA black sites around the(17)
酷刑被证明是无效的,但仍在以色列中央情报局的黑场实践中仍然存在。

world.(18)
世界。

Daniel Jones was lead investigator on SenatorDianne Feinstein's Intelligence Committee(19)
丹尼尔·琼斯(Daniel Jones)是戴安娜·费恩斯坦参议员情报委员会的首席研究员

staff.(20)
员工。

Actor Adam Driver, known for recent rolesin "BlacKkKlansman" and the "Star Wars" sequel(21)
演员亚当·司机(Adam Driver),因最近在《 BlacKkKlansman》和《星球大战》续集中扮演的角色而闻名

trilogy, portrays Jones.(22)
三部曲,刻画琼斯。

ADAM DRIVER, Actor: After 9/11, everyone wasscared, scared it might happen again.(23)
ADAM DRIVER,演员:9/11之后,每个人都感到害怕,害怕再次发生。

It was my second day of grad school.(24)
那是我毕业的第二天。

The next day, I changed all my classes tonational security.(25)
第二天,我将所有班级改为国家安全。

JEFFREY BROWN: Jones is the primary authorof the report on torture.(26)
杰弗里·布朗(JEFFREY BROWN):琼斯是酷刑报告的主要作者。

DANIEL JONES, Former Senate Intelligence CommitteeInvestigator: Well, there are 20 findings(27)
前参议院情报委员会调查员丹尼尔·琼斯(DANIEL JONES):嗯,有20个发现

and conclusions in the overall report, whichcan boil down into three key findings, overall(28)
总体报告中的结论和结论,可以归纳为三个主要发现,总体而言

findings.(29)
发现。

One is that the techniques the CIA used, whichmost refer to as torture, resulted in false(30)
一个是中央情报局使用的技术,大多数被称为酷刑,导致虚假的

answers and didn't result in unique information.(31)
答案,并没有产生唯一的信息。

MAURA TIERNEY, Actress: Why are so many ofthese guys still lying to us after you work(32)
玛拉·蒂妮(MAURA TIERNEY),女演员:为什么这么多人在您工作后仍然对我们撒谎

on them?(33)
在他们?

Where's this special sauce?(34)
这个特殊的酱料在哪里?

You have to make this work.(35)
您必须使这项工作。

It's only legal if it works.(36)
它只有合法才能生效。

DANIEL JONES: Two is, the techniques werefar more brutal than the CIA had described(37)
丹尼尔·琼斯:二是,这些技术比中央情报局描述的还要残酷得多

to Congress, to the president, to the Departmentof Justice.(38)
国会,总统,司法部。

ACTOR: We improve his treatment for a weekor two, give him some hope.(39)
演员:我们将他的治疗改善一两个星期,给他一些希望。

And then we go back at him hard and createa sense of helplessness.(40)
然后,我们艰难地回击他,并产生一种无助感。

DANIEL JONES: And three is, the program wasgrossly mismanaged.(41)
丹尼尔·琼斯(DANIEL JONES):第三,该程序管理不善。

The CIA didn't hold officers accountable forwrongdoing.(42)
中央情报局没有要求官员对不当行为负责。

They didn't set up appropriate guidelines.(43)
他们没有建立适当的指导方针。

Over and over again, we saw some significantmanagement failures.(44)
一遍又一遍,我们看到了一些重大的管理故障。

JEFFREY BROWN: Scott Z. Burns wrote and directedthe film.(45)
杰弗里·布朗(JEFFREY BROWN):斯科特·Z·伯恩斯(Scott Z. Burns)导演并执导了这部电影。

Best known for his screenplay "The BourneUltimatum," Burns also produced the Academy(46)
伯恩斯(Burns)以他的剧本《波恩最后通Ul》(Bourne Ultimatum)最为人所知

Award-winning documentary "An InconvenientTruth."(47)
屡获殊荣的纪录片《不便的真相》。

Why did you think this might be a movie?(48)
您为什么认为这可能是电影?

SCOTT Z. BURNS, Director, "The Report": Youknow, for me, it started out that both my(49)
斯科特·Z·伯恩斯(SCOTT Z. BURNS),《报告》主任:对我来说,我发现

parents are psychologists, and I grew up withsome awareness of that profession as a thing(50)
父母是心理学家,而我在成长过程中对这一专业有所了解

that exists to help people.(51)
存在来帮助人们。

And so when I read that people had figuredout a way to weaponize psychology, I found(52)
因此,当我读到人们已经想出一种将心理学武器化的方法时,我发现

that appalling.(53)
令人震惊。

ACTOR: We fundamentally disagree with theassertion that the program was poorly managed(54)
演员:我们从根本上不同意该计划管理不善的说法

and executed, and that unqualified officersimposed brutal conditions, used unapproved(55)
被处决,不合格人员施加残酷条件,未经批准使用

techniques, and were rarely held accountable.(56)
技术,很少追究责任。

SCOTT Z. BURNS: I also felt that my countryhad tortured people, and that that was antithetical(57)
SCOTT Z. BURNS:我还感到我国遭受了酷刑,这是对立的

to everything I had thought.(58)
我想过的一切。

And I know that may sound naive, because theCIA had done that at other points in history.(59)
我知道这听起来很幼稚,因为中央情报局在历史上的其他时候已经这样做了。

JEFFREY BROWN: Jones and his team set up asecure room within a CIA facility to go through(60)
杰弗里·布朗(JEFFREY BROWN):琼斯和他的团队在CIA设施内建立了一个安全房间,以便通过

the evidence.(61)
证据。

ADAM DRIVER: No paper?(62)
ADAM DRIVER:没有纸?

ACTOR: Paper has a way of getting people introuble at our place.(63)
演员:纸可以使我们这里的人陷入困境。

ADAM DRIVER: At our place, paper is how wekeep track of laws.(64)
ADAM DRIVER:在我们这里,纸是我们跟踪法律的方式。

JEFFREY BROWN: Investigators would face multiplehurdles put in the way by the CIA and other(65)
杰弗里·布朗(JEFFREY BROWN):调查人员将面临中央情报局(CIA)和其他方面的多重障碍

officials, including threat of legal actionagainst Jones.(66)
官员,包括威胁对琼斯采取法律行动。

COREY STOLL, Actor: They can go after thenext best thing, you.(67)
COREY STOLL,演员:他们可以追求下一个最好的东西,你。

JEFFREY BROWN: The film's narrative followsJones as he puts the puzzle pieces together.(68)
杰弗里·布朗(JEFFREY BROWN):这部电影的叙述跟随琼斯(Jones)拼凑的拼图碎片。

DANIEL JONES: When Scott first described tome his idea, which was this -- almost this(69)
丹尼尔·琼斯(Daniel Jones):当斯科特(Scott)第一次向我描述他的想法时,就是这样-几乎是这样

dark comedy of errors, in some ways, thatwas the only thing that made sense to me.(70)
在某种程度上,错误的黑暗喜剧对我来说是唯一有意义的事情。

SCOTT Z. BURNS: I think it's the struggleof somebody to get -- to get the truth out.(71)
SCOTT Z. BURNS:我认为这是某人努力获取真相的努力。

And I think what happened with Dan I thinkis kind of a tracer bullet through our political(72)
我认为Dan发生的事情我认为这是我们政治上的示踪子弹

system right now, that there are these systemsand institutions that exists to provide oversight(73)
目前存在的系统和机构可以提供监督

and accountability, and yet it took reallyHerculean effort on Dan's part and the other(74)
和问责制,但Dan和另一方确实付出了艰辛的努力

people, the senators on the committee, toget this story out.(75)
人们,委员会的参议员,以阐明这个故事。

JEFFREY BROWN: According to the film, theCIA and the Obama administration actively(76)
杰弗里·布朗(JEFFREY BROWN):根据电影,中央情报局和奥巴马政府积极

tried to keep the findings from being madepublic amid other national priorities.(77)
力图使调查结果不被其他国家优先事项公开。

Actor Jon Hamm portrays Denis McDonough, PresidentObama's chief of staff.(78)
演员乔恩·哈姆(Jon Hamm)饰演奥巴马总统办公厅主任丹尼斯·麦克唐纳(Denis McDonough)。

Annette Bening is Senator Dianne Feinstein.(79)
安妮特·贝宁(Annette Bening)是戴安娜·费恩斯坦参议员。

JON HAMM, Actor: When this administrationtook office, we faced the very real possibility(80)
乔恩·汉姆(JON HAMM),演员:当上届政府就职时,我们面临着非常现实的可能性

of economic collapse.(81)
经济崩溃。

Do we spend our political capital on goingaround trying to find people to blame, or(82)
我们是否将政治资本花在四处寻找别人的责任,还是

do we solve the problem?(83)
我们可以解决问题吗?

ANNETTE BENING, Actress: Maybe the way tosolve the problem is to hold people accountable.(84)
女演员安妮特·贝宁(Annette BENing):也许解决问题的方法是让人们负责。

Do you ever wonder why history repeats itself?(85)
您是否想知道历史为什么会重演?

Well, I think maybe it's because we don'talways listen the first time.(86)
好吧,我想也许是因为我们并不总是第一次听。

JEFFREY BROWN: Director Burn says he feltit was important to depict acts of torture.(87)
杰弗里·布朗(JEFFREY BROWN):伯恩主任说,他认为描绘酷刑行为很重要。

You had to make some decisions about whatyou were going to show us, right, especially(88)
您必须对要向我们展示的内容做出一些决定,特别是

when it came down to those interrogation torturescenes.(89)
当归结为那些审讯酷刑的场面。

SCOTT Z. BURNS: Right.(90)
SCOTT Z. BURNS:对。

JEFFREY BROWN: How did you decide?(91)
JEFFREY BROWN:您如何决定?

SCOTT Z. BURNS: Well, it was probably thepart of the film that I worked and agonized(92)
SCOTT Z. BURNS:嗯,这可能是我工作和苦恼的那部电影的一部分

the most over through the edit and throughwriting, through every aspect.(93)
通过各个方面的编辑和写作,获得最大收益。

I mean, there were early drafts where I wonderedif we could tell the story without showing(94)
我的意思是,有些早期的草稿让我想知道我们是否可以在不露面的情况下讲故事

anything.(95)
任何东西。

ADAM DRIVER: They water-boarded him 183 times,and then concluded KSM may never be forthcoming(96)
ADAM DRIVER:他们给他浇了183次水,然后得出结论:KSM可能永远不会到来

or honest.(97)
还是老实

Everything they got from him was either alie or something they already had.(98)
他们从他那里得到的一切要么是谎言,要么是他们已经拥有的东西。

ANNETTE BENING: Well, OK.(99)
安妮特·贝宁:好的,好的。

So my first question is, if it works, whydo you need to do it 183 times?(100)
所以我的第一个问题是,如果可行,为什么需要进行183次?

ADAM DRIVER: Maybe, when the report comesout, people will finally see that.(101)
ADAM DRIVER:也许,当报告发布时,人们最终会看到这一点。

SCOTT Z. BURNS: The reason why Abu Ghraibwas such a sea change in this whole story(102)
SCOTT Z. BURNS:在整个故事中,阿布格莱布之所以如此大变迁的原因

is, people saw these things.(103)
是,人们看到了这些东西。

And, obviously, someone who works in a visualart form, pictures do paint thousands of words.(104)
而且,显然,以视觉艺术形式工作的人,图片确实描绘了数千个单词。

And I felt, unless I show the audience enoughof what really happened, they wouldn't truly(105)
而且我感到,除非我向观众充分说明实际发生的事情,否则他们不会真正

understand the trespasses against the lawand against human dignity.(106)
了解侵犯法律和侵犯人格尊严的行为。

But when I shot it, I tried to make it moreabout the torturers than the torture, because(107)
但是当我射击时,我尝试使之更多地是关于酷刑者而不是酷刑,因为

a lot of these people did do criminal acts.(108)
这些人中有很多确实有犯罪行为。

And it wasn't to elicit sympathy for al-Qaida.(109)
这并不是要引起对基地组织的同情。

JEFFREY BROWN: In the end, after the years-longdrama, Daniel Jones says the system worked.(110)
杰弗里·布朗(JEFFREY BROWN):最终,经过长达数年的戏剧表演,丹尼尔·琼斯(Daniel Jones)表示该系统有效。

DANIEL JONES: We did get a report out.(111)
丹尼尔·琼斯:我们确实收到了一份报告。

It's 525 pages.(112)
525页。

It has redactions, but we did get the reportout.(113)
它有一些修订,但我们确实将报告发布了。

The report was released.(114)
该报告已发布。

And I think that's really to the testamentof what the senators did of that committee.(115)
我认为这确实证明了该委员会参议员的所作所为。

They really were committed to this and committedto getting it out in public.(116)
他们确实致力于此,并致力于将其公开发布。

JEFFREY BROWN: Do you feel that you told apositive story or a warning story?(117)
杰弗里·布朗(JEFFREY BROWN):您是否觉得自己讲的是正面故事或警告故事?

What is it?(118)
它是什么?

SCOTT Z. BURNS: Well, as a filmmaker, I don'tfeel like I get to decide what the audience(119)
SCOTT Z. BURNS:嗯,作为一名电影摄制者,我觉得我无法决定观众

should feel at the end.(120)
应该感觉到最后。

I know how I feel, which is I am -- I'm greatlybuoyed by the fact that this country did put(121)
我知道自己的感受,就是我-这个国家确实放下了这个事实,对此我深感鼓舞

that report out.(122)
报告出来。

And Steven Soderbergh, who's a producer onthis, has always said, I don't -- I don't(123)
而制作人史蒂文·索德伯格(Steven Soderbergh)一直说,我不-我不

know that there's another country, other thanmaybe Canada or the U.K., that would -- that(124)
知道除了加拿大或英国之外,还有另一个国家会-

would have even allowed this kind of investigation.(125)
甚至允许这种调查。

JEFFREY BROWN: "The Report" is now streamingon Amazon Prime video.(126)
JEFFREY BROWN:“报告”现在在Amazon Prime视频上流式传输。

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Jeffrey Brownat the Toronto International Film Festival.(127)
对于“ PBS NewsHour”,我是多伦多国际电影节上的杰弗里·布朗。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Another movie to put on yourlist for this holiday season.(128)
朱迪·伍德鲁夫(JUDY WOODRUFF):这个假期的另一部电影将列入您的清单。


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