What we know about deadly radiation explosion at Russian military site
2019-08-13 00:00:00


AMNA NAWAZ: An explosion at a remote site,shifting stories from the Russian government(1)
AMNA NAWAZ:在一个偏远地区爆炸,从俄罗斯政府转移故事

and nuclear officials, public concern aboutradiation exposure -- we're not talking about(2)
和核官员,公众对辐射照射的关注 - 我们不是在谈论

Chernobyl 33 years ago.(3)
切尔诺贝利33年前。

We're talking about two Russian military accidentsnear the Arctic Circle, one just last week.(4)
我们谈论的是北极圈附近的两起俄罗斯军事事故,就在上周。

Our William Brangham has the details.(5)
我们的William Brangham有详细信息。

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM, PBS NEWSHOUR CORRESPONDENT:Somber crowds lined the streets of Sarov today,(6)
曼彻斯特布伦哈姆,PBS NEWSHOUR记者:今天在萨罗夫的街道上排着阴沉的人群,

bearing witness to funerals cloaked in mysteryafter a nuclear reactor explosion at a nearby(7)
在附近发生核反应堆爆炸后,见证了葬礼上的葬礼

missile testing site killed at least sevenscientists.(8)
导弹试验场至少杀死了七名科学家。

The final death toll is unknown.(9)
最后的死亡人数不详。

Russian nuclear officials have been slow todisclose details.(10)
俄罗斯核官员一直在缓慢透露细节。

But with long faces, they admitted Thursday'sblast at their Nenoksa testing site was a(11)
但是面对长脸,他们承认周四在他们的Nenoksa测试网站爆炸是一个

tragedy.(12)
悲剧。

VALENTIN KOSTYUKOV, DIRECTOR, RUSSIAN FEDERALNUCLEAR CENTER (through translator): A chain(13)
VALENTIN KOSTYUKOV,总监,俄罗斯联邦核心中心(通过翻译):A chain

of tragic incidental events and uncertaintiesled to this happening.(14)
悲惨的偶然事件和不确定因素导致了这种情况的发生。

Although, after a preliminary analysis, wehave seen the testers were fighting to get(15)
虽然经过初步分析,我们已经看到测试人员正在努力争取

the situation under control.(16)
情况得到控制。

Unfortunately, they did not succeed.(17)
不幸的是,他们没有成功。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Authorities say they willevacuate the town of Severodvinsk.(18)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:当局说他们将撤离Severodvinsk镇。

Officials say gamma radiation there is fourto 16 times greater than background levels.(19)
官员称伽玛辐射比背景水平高4到16倍。

Analysts believe the accident involved a newnuclear-powered cruise missile, the kind Russian(20)
分析人士认为,这次事故涉及一种新的核动力巡航导弹,即俄罗斯人

President Vladimir Putin boasted about lastyear.(21)
总统弗拉基米尔普京去年吹嘘说。

PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA (throughtranslator): A real technologic breakthrough(22)
总统弗拉基米尔·普京,俄罗斯(通过翻译):真正的技术突破

is the creation of the advanced strategicmissile system with a totally new combat equipment(23)
是一种先进的战略导弹系统的创造,拥有全新的作战装备

and programming cruise unit.(24)
和编程邮轮。

Its testing was completed successfully.(25)
它的测试成功完成。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Jeffrey Lewis is the directorof the East Asia non-proliferation program(26)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:Jeffrey Lewis是东亚防扩散计划的负责人

at the Middlebury Institute of InternationalStudies.(27)
在米德尔伯里国际研究学院。

JEFFREY LEWIS, MIDDLEBURY INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONALSTUDIES: Since about late 2017, Russia has(28)
中世纪国际问题研究所JEFFREY LEWIS:自2017年底以来,俄罗斯已经有了

been developing a nuclear-powered cruise missile.(29)
一直在开发核动力巡航导弹。

Because this cruise missile uses a nuclearreactor at its power source, it seems like(30)
因为这种巡航导弹在它的动力源上使用核反应堆,所以看起来像

it’s incredibly finicky.(31)
它令人难以置信的挑剔。

The easiest way to think of this missile isas a flying, a tiny flying Chernobyl.(32)
想到这种导弹的最简单方法就是飞行,飞行切尔诺贝利。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Moscow's push for new missiletechnology is aimed at outsmarting defense(33)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:莫斯科推动新型导弹技术的目标是超越防御

systems the U.S. is building, and this resurgentarms race has cost other lives.(34)
美国正在建设的系统,这种复苏的军备竞赛已经耗费了其他生命。

Just last month, 14 Russian sailors died afteran explosion on one of their nuclear submarines.(35)
就在上个月,14名俄罗斯船员在他们的一艘核潜艇发生爆炸后死亡。

JEFFREY LEWIS: The people who were killedwere all very high ranking, and that's not(36)
JEFFREY LEWIS:被杀的人都排名很高,但事实并非如此

typical to have so many high-ranking officerson a submarine.(37)
典型的潜艇上有这么多高级军官。

As relations between the United States andRussia get worse, the Russians are stepping(38)
随着美国和俄罗斯之间的关系恶化,俄罗斯人正在踩踏

up all these kind of traditional Cold Warbehaviors.(39)
所有这些传统的冷战行为。

So, we're seeing all kinds of new systemsand new systems often have problems.(40)
因此,我们看到各种新系统和新系统经常出现问题。

So, it's -- it's sad, right, that these peoplekeep dying, but this is kind of what an arms(41)
所以,这是令人伤心的,对,这些人一直在死,但这就是一种武器

race looks like.(42)
比赛看起来像。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: These developments comeas a major U.S.-Russia arms control treaty(43)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:这些发展是美俄主要的军控条约

is set to expire in 2021, and after the U.S.withdrew from the Intermediate Range Nuclear(44)
将于2021年到期,并在美国退出中级核电之后

Forces Treaty, saying that Russia was in violationof that agreement.(45)
强制条约,称俄罗斯违反了该协议。

On top of that, with Western sanctions mounting,the Russian economy and Putin's approval ratings(46)
最重要的是,随着西方制裁的增加,俄罗斯经济和普京的支持率上升

are both declining.(47)
都在下降。

Moscow has also been erupting in enormousprotests, as Russians took to the streets(48)
随着俄罗斯人走上街头,莫斯科也在大规模的抗议活动中爆发

to complain about the Kremlin's tight gripon domestic politics.(49)
抱怨克里姆林宫严格控制国内政治。

Police turned violent as they arrested morethan a thousand demonstrators this weekend(50)
警方在本周末逮捕了一千多名示威者时变得暴力

who were out demanding more open elections.(51)
他们要求更多的公开选举。

(END VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: For more on what these militarymishaps and protests mean, we turn to Angela(52)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:关于这些军事灾难和抗议活动的意义,我们转向安吉拉

Stent.(53)
支架。

She directs the center for Eurasian, Russianand East European studies at Georgetown University's(54)
她指导该中心在乔治城大学进行欧亚,俄罗斯和东欧研究

School of Foreign Service.(55)
外交学院。

Her latest book is "Putin's World: RussiaAgainst The West And With The Rest."(56)
她的最新着作是“普京的世界:俄罗斯反对西方,与其他人在一起”。

Angela Stent, welcome back to the NewsHour.(57)
Angela Stent,欢迎回到NewsHour。

I wonder if you could -- is there anythingelse that you can tell us about Russia's testing(58)
我想知道你能不能 - 还有什么可以告诉我们俄罗斯的测试

or this accident that happened around thismissile?(59)
或者这次导弹发生的事故?

ANGELA STENT, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: I thinkno more than what we already heard on the(60)
乔治亚大学安哥拉分校:我想的不过是我们已经听过的

broadcast, which is they really are givingthe minimum amount of information, but because(61)
广播,这是他们真正提供最少量的信息,但因为

of Chernobyl and because of what happened33 years ago, the Russian people are very(62)
切尔诺贝利和33年前发生的事情,俄罗斯人民非常

suspicious when they heard about this.(63)
当他们听到这个时,他们很可疑。

This is why there was a run on iodine immediatelyafter they heard rumors of this.(64)
这就是为什么在他们听到有关这方面的谣言之后立即对碘进行了试运行。

So, this pattern really hasn’t changed verymuch.(65)
所以,这种模式确实没有太大变化。

And we just don’t know.(66)
而我们只是不知道。

I think that most American specialists willsay that the U.S. tried to develop a nuclear-powered(67)
我认为大多数美国专家会说美国试图发展核动力

cruise missile and gave it up in the 1960s.(68)
巡航导弹并在20世纪60年代放弃了它。

It's just not practical.(69)
这不切合实际。

It's, as we heard, you know, like a flyingChernobyl.(70)
正如我们所听到的那样,你知道,就像飞行切尔诺贝利一样。

And so, we don't really know what the Russiansdo or don't have.(71)
所以,我们真的不知道俄罗斯人做了什么或没有做什么。

We do know that last year, Vladimir Putin,as you said, demonstrated a picture, a video(72)
我们知道去年,正如你所说,弗拉基米尔普京展示了一张图片,一段视频

of this missile, which can evade U.S. missiledefenses and finally landed in Florida and(73)
这种导弹可以逃避美国的导弹防御,并最终降落在佛罗里达州和

dropped something on what suspiciously lookedlike Mar-a-Lago.(74)
什么看起来像是Mar-a-Lago。

In other words, the Russians are trying todevelop weapons that can totally evade the(75)
换句话说,俄罗斯人正试图开发可以完全逃避武器的武器

elaborate missile defense systems that theU.S. has been creating.(76)
美国一直在创造的精心设计的导弹防御系统。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: With this secretive shiftingstory, tight-lipped response from various(77)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:随着这个神秘的转变故事,各种各样的反应敏捷

Russian officials, is that what we're justsupposed to expect when this kind of a military(78)
俄罗斯官员,这就是我们在这种军队时应该期待的

mishap occurs?(79)
事故发生了?

ANGELA STENT: Well, we have never seen anythingelse from the Russians.(80)
ANGELA STENT:嗯,我们从未见过俄罗斯人的其他任何东西。

When the Kursk submarine sank early into Putin’stenure, there was a total blackout on information(81)
当库尔斯克号潜艇在普京任期内沉没时,信息完全停电

for a long time.(82)
需很长时间。

They are not good about giving out accurateinformation or at least enough information(83)
他们不善于提供准确的信息或至少提供足够的信息

to try and save their population from needlessradiation and other effects.(84)
试图从不必要的辐射和其他影响中拯救他们的人口。

I myself was in Moscow during the Chernobylexplosion, and I know how frightening it was(85)
在切尔诺贝利爆炸期间,我自己就在莫斯科,我知道它是多么令人恐惧

for everyone to figure out what was happening,where the radiation was, and this pattern(86)
让大家弄清楚发生了什么,辐射在哪里,以及这种模式

doesn't seem to have changed.(87)
似乎没有改变。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Amidst these two differentaccidents that have happened, we’re also(88)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:在发生这两起不同的事故中,我们也是

seeing this seeming escalation in the armsrace between Russia and the U.S.(89)
看到俄罗斯和美国之间的军备竞赛似乎在升级

Can you just give us a sense of the lay ofthe land with regard to arms control and arms(90)
你能告诉我们关于军备控制和武器的土地问题吗?

development between the two nations?(91)
两国之间的发展?

ANGELA STENT: Certainly.(92)
ANGELA STENT:当然可以。

So as you said, the treaty on IntermediateRange Nuclear Forces is dead since August(93)
正如你所说,自8月以来,中程核力量条约已经死亡

2nd of this month.(94)
本月2日。

So, neither the United States nor Russia aboundby that, and we will both now be developing(95)
因此,美国和俄罗斯都不是这样,我们现在都将发展

new classes of intermediate range missiles.(96)
新型中程导弹。

Our defense secretary has said that we will.(97)
我们的国防部长说我们会。

And I think the first place they could bedeployed is in Asia.(98)
我认为他们可以部署的第一个地方是亚洲。

That's if we'll have any allies that willtake them.(99)
如果我们有任何盟友会接受它们。

The Russians have also said they're developinga new class of weapons.(100)
俄罗斯人也表示他们正在开发一种新型武器。

I think the real thing to watch is the newSTART treaty regulating strategic nuclear(101)
我认为值得关注的是新的START条约,该条约规范战略核

weapons.(102)
武器。

It's set to expire in 2021.(103)
它将于2021年到期。

It could be extended for five years just bymutual agreement, but our national security(104)
它可以通过双方协议延长五年,但我们的国家安全

advisor John Bolton has frequently said thathe regards these kinds of arms control agreements(105)
顾问约翰博尔顿经常说他认为这些军控协议

as antiquated and useless.(106)
过时和没用。

And, in fact, he said in a speech two weeksago that he didn't really see any reason to(107)
事实上,他在两周前的一次演讲中说,他并没有真正看到任何理由

extend this new START agreement.(108)
延长这项新的START协议。

So what we're talking about is in 2021 wecould be in the situation, if this new START(109)
所以我们所说的是在2021年我们可能处于这种情况,如果这个新的START

agreement isn't extended, where for the firsttime since 1972, since President Nixon went(110)
协议没有延长,这是自1972年尼克松总统以来的第一次

to Moscow and signed a similar agreement withBrezhnev, while the U.S. was mining Haiphong(111)
到莫斯科并与勃列日涅夫签署了类似的协议,而美国正在开采海防

Harbor, by the way, will be the first timewe won't have any agreement that regulates(112)
顺便说一句,港口将是我们第一次没有任何规定的协议

the nuclear arsenals of the world's two nuclearsuperpowers who between them control 90 percent(113)
世界上两个核超级大国的核武库,它们之间控制着90%

of the world's nuclear weapons.(114)
世界核武器。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Shifting gears just a tinybit, we saw these protests erupting in Moscow(115)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:我们看到这些抗议活动在莫斯科爆发了一点点

over as I mentioned what seemed like somewhatprovincial local elections.(116)
正如我所提到的,似乎有些省级地方选举。

Does this crack down and this response bythe Russian citizenry in Moscow say anything(117)
这是否打击,俄罗斯公民在莫斯科的回应是什么

broader about Putin and his hold on power?(118)
更广泛的普京和他对权力的控制?

ANGELA STENT: I think it does.(119)
ANGELA STENT:我认为确实如此。

I think this is more than just a squabbleabout who is going to sit on a 45-person municipal(120)
我认为这不仅仅是关于谁将会坐在45人市政当局的争吵

council and regulate refuse collection andtaxi licenses.(121)
理事会并规范垃圾收集和出租车执照。

I think younger Russians particularly whohave been out on the streets, 50,000 people(122)
我认为年轻的俄罗斯人尤其是已经走上街头的5万人

on Saturday, realize looking ahead that theyhave very little control over their political(123)
周六,我们意识到他们对政治的控制很少

system.(124)
系统。

They have very little choice.(125)
他们的选择很少。

They understand that even though PresidentPutin's term doesn't expire until 2024, this(126)
他们明白,尽管普京总统的任期到2024年才到期,但这一点

kind of interagency and the rivalry for powerand the(127)
一种跨机构和权力与竞争的对抗

questioning about succession, this is alreadygoing on, and they would like to have a different(128)
对继承的质疑,这已经开始了,他们希望有所不同

system.(129)
系统。

They would like to be able to have, again,more choice in the system.(130)
他们希望能够再次在系统中拥有更多选择。

So, it’s not just about a municipal election.(131)
所以,这不仅仅是关于市政选举。

It's about the principle of having peoplewho are not a member of the official united(132)
这是关于让不是联合国官员的人的原则

Russia party and who have independent viewshave some say in this system.(133)
俄罗斯党和有独立观点的人在这个体系中有一些发言权。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: We've certainly seen herein the U.S. a lot of discussion about Russia's(134)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:我们在美国看到很多关于俄罗斯的讨论

interference in our last election.(135)
在上次选举中干涉。

We've also seen Russia trying to flex itsmuscles in Europe, in the Middle East, in(136)
我们也看到俄罗斯正试图在中东的欧洲展示自己的力量

Syria, in Turkey.(137)
叙利亚,土耳其。

You wrote a recent piece where you were tryingto get Americans to recognize that judo is(138)
你写了一篇最近的文章,你试图让美国人认识到柔道是

Putin's sport of choice, not chess as a game.(139)
普京的选择运动,而非国际象棋作为一种游戏。

What did you mean by that?(140)
那是什么意思?

ANGELA STENT: So what I meant by it, and judo-- and Vladimir Putin became a judo champion(141)
ANGELA STENT:我的意思是什么,柔道 - 弗拉基米尔普京成为柔道冠军

as a young man.(142)
作为一个年轻人。

He said in his own autobiographical essay,it helped him to get out of the rut and the(143)
他在自己的自传文章中说,这有助于他摆脱困境

hardscrabble background that he had.(144)
他有难以捉摸的背景。

What I meant by that was that in judo, evenif you are maybe weaker than your opponent,(145)
我的意思是,在柔道中,即使你可能比你的对手弱,

if you sense their own distraction, if yousense their own weakness, if you can distract(146)
如果你感觉到自己分心,如果你感觉到自己的弱点,如果你能分散注意力

them, you can in fact prevail over what wouldappear to be a stronger opponent.(147)
他们,你实际上可以战胜看起来更强大的对手。

And I think what Putin has done very effectivelyis to take advantage of the opportunities(148)
而且我认为普京非常有效地做的是利用这些机会

presented to him by distraction in the West,by the divisions, by the polarization, and(149)
西方的分心,分裂,两极分化,和

by the fact, I would argue, that the UnitedStates did not have a very coherent idea about(150)
事实上,我认为,美国并没有一个非常连贯的想法

what it wanted to do after the Soviet Unioncollapsed.(151)
在苏联解体后它想做什么。

And when Putin came to power in 2000, he hada pretty clear idea that he wanted to restore(152)
当普京在2000年上台时,他非常明确地想要恢复

Russia as a great power.(153)
俄罗斯作为一个强国。

And so, he's managed to take advantage ofthis and restore Russia as a global player.(154)
因此,他成功地利用了这一点,并将俄罗斯恢复为全球参与者。

And when you look at the fundamentals in Russia,a GDP which is the size of that of Italy,(155)
当你看一下俄罗斯的基本面时,GDP就像意大利那样大,

a declining population, an economy that'soverwhelmingly dependent on raw materials(156)
人口下降,一个绝大部分依赖原材料的经济

revenues, you realize that he's played a weakhand quite effectively.(157)
收入,你意识到他非常有效地发挥了弱势。

And, of course, he's been in power for 20years now, and he's seen American presidents(158)
当然,他已经执政20年了,他见过美国总统

and other leaders come and go, and he feelsthat he has the upper hand in many ways, despite(159)
和其他领导人来去匆匆,尽管如此,他觉得他在很多方面占据上风

all these problems.(160)
所有这些问题。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right.(161)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:好的。

Angela Stent of Georgetown University, thankyou so much.(162)
乔治城大学的Angela Stent,非常感谢你。

ANGELA STENT: Thank you.(163)
ANGELA STENT:谢谢。


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