What the Winter Olympics tell us about life in Russia (and vice versa)
2014-02-21 23:45:12


JUDY WOODRUFF: Finally tonight: As the Winter Olympics close this weekend, we conclude with a broader look at the host country,(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:最后今晚: 作为冬季奥运会关闭这个周末,我们的结论与东道国,更广泛看

at its people and the contrast between the past couple of weeks and the day-to-day life of ordinary Russians.(2)
在它的人民,过去几个星期和普通俄罗斯人的日常生活之间的对比。

Jeff is back with our conversation which he recorded earlier in the week.(3)
杰夫是回与我们的谈话,他在本周早些时候录得。

JEFFREY BROWN: Gregory Feifer first came to his interest in Russia through a personal connection. His mother grew up there under communism.(4)
JEFFREY BROWN:Gregory Feifer 第一次来到了他个人的连接通过俄罗斯的兴趣。他的母亲在那里在共产主义下长大。

He later lived and worked there as a correspondent for NPR and other news organizations.(5)
他后来那里生活和工作作为 NPR 和其他新闻组织的一名记者。

And he has now written of people he met along the way and events he covered in the new book “Russians: The People Behind the Power. ”.(6)
他写了现在的他在路上遇到的人和他在这本新书中所涉及的事件和"俄国人: 权力背后的人."。

Welcome to you.(7)
欢迎您的光临。

GREGORY FEIFER, “Russians: The People Behind the Power”: Thank you.(8)
GREGORY FEIFER, “Russians:电源后面的人": 谢谢你。

JEFFREY BROWN: A starting point is this — is that even while the world’s spotlight is on Russia during the Olympics,(9)
JEFFREY BROWN:这是一个起点 — — 这,也是世界的焦点是对俄罗斯奥运期间

we Americans really don’t know it or understand it much. Right. That is your feeling?(10)
我们美国人真的不知道它或太明白它。权利。这就是你的感觉?

GREGORY FEIFER: Absolutely. The idea behind the book was to try to get behind why is it that two decades after the Soviets collapse,(11)
GREGORY FEIFER:绝对。这本书背后的想法是尝试获取后面为什么是它,两个几十年后苏联崩溃,

do Americans find Russian behavior mystifying in some way?(12)
美国人是否发现俄罗斯行为以某种方式令人困惑吗?

We tend to explain what we don’t know about Russia by saying that,(13)
我们倾向于解释我们不知道关于俄国所说,

well, perhaps Russians have a mystical Russian soul that we have heard about and it’s different and so we can’t understand it.(14)
好,也许俄国人有我们听说过一个神秘的俄罗斯灵魂和它不同,所以我们不能理解它。

I don’t believe that’s true. My approach has been to look at Russians’ daily behavior, their family life, work patterns, drinking.(15)
我不相信这是真的。我的方法是看看俄国人的日常行为,他们的家庭生活、 工作模式、 喝酒。

And in my many travels across Russia, it seems to me that Russian behavior is understandable and there are patterns behind it.(16)
我在很多俄罗斯各地旅行,在我看来俄罗斯的行为是可以理解的在它后面的模式有。

JEFFREY BROWN: Well, so let’s — so let’s look at that through the guise of the Olympics, right,(17)
JEFFREY BROWN:好吧,那么让我们 — — 那么让我们看看,通过奥运会对的幌子

because we’re seeing the Olympics from the opening ceremonies to the whole staging.(18)
因为我们看到整个转移到奥运的开幕仪式。

How does this Russia that you see manifest itself?(19)
您看到此俄罗斯如何表现出来?

GREGORY FEIFER: Well, I think the Olympics are a very traditional Russian event.(20)
GREGORY FEIFER:奥运会是一个非常传统的俄罗斯事件吧

I mean, this is a country that has built Saint Petersburg to be the European city on a swamp, professed it wanted to spread communism around the world.(21)
这是一个建立了圣彼得斯堡是一片沼泽地的欧洲城市公开宣称它想要传播共产主义在世界各地的国家。

The Olympics in a way are another grandiose project to try to catch up to the West.(22)
奥运会的一种方法是另一个宏伟的项目,试图捕捉到西方。

But I think what really characterizes these Games to me is that they show how much Russia actually lags,(23)
但我觉得真正的特点对我这些游戏是他们显示多少俄罗斯实际上落后,

because if you look at what’s going on in Russia, Moscow may be full of luxury cars and fancy restaurants,(24)
因为如果你看看到底在俄罗斯,莫斯科可能会充分的豪华车和高档餐厅,

thanks to the riches from Russia’s vast energy wealth, but you don’t have to go to Siberia.(25)
谢谢到财富从俄罗斯的巨大的能源财富,但你不必去西伯利亚。

You can just drive 50 miles outside of Moscow and see a countryside that’s literally dying.(26)
你只是可以开车在莫斯科郊外 50 英里,看字面上死一个农村。

I visited many villages there where there were two, sometimes even one elderly person living in what used to be villages on muddy tracks.(27)
我访问过许多村庄那里那里有两个,有时甚至一个老人住在曾经是村庄在泥泞的轨道上。

And the poverty, alcoholism, disease, in many ways, Russia’s heading towards crises.(28)
贫穷、 酒精中毒、 疾病、 在许多方面,俄罗斯走向危机。

JEFFREY BROWN: Two of the things that you write a lot about, and then again I think we see in the Olympics from your writing and others, power and corruption.(29)
JEFFREY BROWN:我们看到两件事情,你写了很多了,和我觉得然后再从你的写作和其他人,权力和腐败现象的奥林匹克运动会。

Tell us what you see. And, again, how do they manifest themselves in the Olympics?(30)
告诉我们你看到了什么。和,再次,如何做他们体现自己在奥运会吗?

GREGORY FEIFER: Well, and we have heard a lot about corruption in the Sochi Olympic Games,(31)
GREGORY FEIFER:嗯,我们已听过不少关于腐败在索契奥运会

the most expensive Games ever at more than $50 billion; $7 billion are reported to have gone to companies connected to one man.(32)
最昂贵的游戏过在超过 $500 亿 ;据报道,$70 亿去了连接到一个人的公司。

This man happens to have been Putin’s childhood friend and former judo partner.(33)
这个人恰好是普京的儿时的朋友和前柔道合作伙伴。

But I think what happens at the top reflects what’s going on in the rest of the country.(34)
不过在顶部会发生什么反映了到底在国家的其他地方。

A former central banker said that, in 2012, $50 billion were sent illegally outside of Russia. But it’s more than that.(35)
前中央银行家说在 2012 年,$500 亿被送非法在俄罗斯。但它是更多的。

I think that we have this idea that Putin has ruled according to a social contract, according to which, as long as living standards keep rising, the Kremlin is more or less free to be as authoritarian as it likes.(36)
我认为我们有普京统治了一种社会契约,据此,根据这个想法,只要生活水平持续上涨,克里姆林宫是更多或更少自由是作为专制,喜欢。

I don’t think that’s quite true. I think the glue binding Putin’s regime to the Russian people is corruption, because bribery involves everybody.(37)
我不认为这是相当真实。我觉得胶水绑定普京向俄罗斯人民政权是腐败,因为贿赂涉及到每个人。

JEFFREY BROWN: Well, that’s what I was going to ask you. Why is it accepted? Explain that.(38)
JEFFREY BROWN:那就是我本来想问你。它为什么被接受?作出解释。

Why would corruption be the glue if there is — and I recently spoke to Masha Gessen about her book about Pussy Riot.(39)
为什么腐败会胶水如果有 — — 和我最近谈到玛莎格森她关于阴部暴乱的书。

And we see Pussy Riot, some of the members showing up in Sochi, and we have had some reports of them being attacked for it.(40)
我们看到的阴部暴乱,某些成员显示在索契,和我们有一些报告说他们为它的攻击。

But the general population seems, at least from the outside, to accept the system.(41)
但一般民众看来,至少从外面,接受系统。

GREGORY FEIFER: Sure, because they’re part of the system.(42)
GREGORY FEIFER:当然,因为他们是系统的一部分。

I was saying about how Russia has — Russians have practical motives for acting the way they do.(43)
我所说的俄罗斯有如何 — — 俄国人有实际动机为代理他们的方式。

I think this — this glue binding the system together, as I said, is bribery. Everybody has to pay a bribe.(44)
我认为这 — — 将系统绑定在一起,我说过,这胶是贿赂。每个人都已支付一笔贿赂。

If you drive a car, you will certainly have to pay a bribe when you’re stopped by a traffic policeman, which happens almost every day.(45)
如果你开的车,你肯定有你要停止的一个交通警察,几乎每天都会发生时支付一笔贿赂。

If you’re the owner of a corner store, for example, you have to pay the fire safety inspector, the health inspector, the building code inspector.(46)
如果你的一个街角商店所有者,例如,你有支付消防安全检查员、  生督察、 建筑代码检查器。

Everybody pays bribes. And I think bribery not only coerces people, because it enables the authorities to prosecute everybody.(47)
每个人都支付贿赂。而且我认为贿赂不仅将强迫人,因为它可以使当局检控每个人。

It also co-opts people, because if you’re paying a bribe, you get something out of it.(48)
它还共同选择的人,因为如果你花钱贿赂,你会得到些东西。

If you’re the corner store owner and you’re paying the police to ensure that no harm comes to your business, you feel that you have got something over the competition a couple blocks away.(49)
如果你是角店老板和你付钱,警方以确保不伤害来到您的业务,你感觉是你把东西超过竞争对手几个街区远。

JEFFREY BROWN: And how does this play out on the world stage?(50)
JEFFREY BROWN:和如何在世界舞台上呢?

I mean, now, of course, we’re watching what’s happening in the Ukraine and then of course the relationship with the United States, a so-called reset that never seemed to actually happen.(51)
我是说,现在,当然,我们在看发生在乌克兰,然后当然与美国所谓的关系重置,从未似乎真的发生。

GREGORY FEIFER: Right. Well, we see Putin as this caricature of an aging dictator.(52)
GREGORY FEIFER:权利。好,我们看到普京作为老化独裁者的这幅漫画。

And I actually think one of the reasons for his success — and he has been successful — he’s been in power for 14 years and it doesn’t look like he’s leaving any time soon — is that he’s very good at creating images of himself.(53)
我真的认为他取得成功的原因之一 — —,他已成功 — — 他已 14 年电源,它看起来不像他离开任何时间很快 — — 他是非常善于创造他自己的影像。

To us, as I said, he looks like this dictator. But to Russians, he’s popular to the majority of Russians.(54)
给我们,我说过,他看起来像这个独裁者。但到俄国人,他是最受欢迎的大多数俄国人。

Most Russians are envious, at least many Russians are envious of the West, and Putin’s nationalism plays into that.(55)
大多数俄罗斯人羡慕、 至少许多俄罗斯人也会羡慕西方,和普京的民族主义戏剧入那。

JEFFREY BROWN: All right, the new book is “Russians: The People Behind the Power.” Gregory Feifer, thanks so much.(56)
JEFFREY BROWN:好吧,这本新书是"俄国人: 电源后面的人."格雷戈里 Feifer,非常感谢。

GREGORY FEIFER: Thank you.(57)
GREGORY FEIFER:谢谢。


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