Why survivors aren’t surprised by sexual abuse inside Southern Baptist churches
2019-06-12 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: With nearly 15 million members,the Southern Baptist Convention is the largest(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:南部浸信会大约有近1500万会员,是最大的会员

Protestant denomination in the United States.(2)
新教教派在美国。

Now it is facing a reckoning of its own oversexual abuse.(3)
现在,它正在面对自己的性虐待问题。

A Houston Chronicle investigation found hundredsof clergy or staff allegedly committed abuse(4)
休斯敦纪事报调查发现数百名神职人员或工作人员涉嫌虐待

or misconduct over two decades.(5)
或二十多年的不当行为。

This week, delegates of Southern Baptist churchesapproved changes for the first time to make(6)
本周,南浸信会教会的代表们首次批准了改变

it easier to expel churches that cover upsexual abuse cases.(7)
更容易驱逐掩盖性虐待案件的教堂。

Rachael Denhollander was the first woman topublicly accuse Larry Nassar.(8)
Rachael Denhollander是第一位公开指责Larry Nassar的女性。

He's the former sports doctor at MichiganState University who was convicted of assaulting(9)
他是密歇根州立大学的前体育医生,被判犯有殴打罪

multiple girls and women.(10)
多个女孩和妇女。

Denhollander spoke at the convention on apanel with fellow sexual abuse survivors and(11)
Denhollander在会议上与性虐待幸存者同行一起发表演讲

is on the denomination's sex abuse study group.(12)
是在面额的性虐待研究组。

She is also the author of "What Is a GirlWorth?: My Story of Breaking the Silence and(13)
她也是“什么是女孩值得?:我打破沉默和沉默的故事”一书的作者

Exposing the Truth about Larry Nassar andUSA Gymnastics."(14)
露出关于拉里纳萨尔和美国体操的真相。“

Rachael Denhollander, thank you very muchfor being with us.(15)
Rachael Denhollander,非常感谢你和我们在一起。

So, you -- we know now that the church hasmade these changes.(16)
所以,你 - 我们现在知道教会已经做出了这些改变。

You have been talking to a number of survivors.(17)
你一直在和一些幸存者谈话。

I want to understand what your sense is ofjust how widespread this abuse was.(18)
我想了解你对这种滥用的普遍程度的看法。

RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER, Advocate and Survivor;You know, unfortunately, the Houston Chronicle(19)
RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER,倡导者和幸存者;不幸的是,你知道休斯敦纪事报

article didn't reveal anything that survivorsand advocates haven't known for a long time.(20)
文章没有透露幸存者和拥护者长期以来不知道的任何事情。

And that is that we have a severe problemin Protestant circles with sexual abuse, not(21)
那就是我们在新教界有严重的性虐待问题,而不是

just by pastors, but by members of the church,and a severe problem with how churches frequently(22)
只是牧师,但教会成员,以及教会经常如此严重的问题

handle disclosures of abuse.(23)
处理滥用的披露。

The top Protestant insurance companies receivemore claims of sexual abuse by clergy than(24)
顶级新教保险公司收到更多神职人员的性虐待指控

even the Catholic insurance companies receive.(25)
甚至天主教保险公司也收到了。

And the number one reason that Protestantorganizations have been held liable in federal(26)
这也是新教组织在联邦政府中承担责任的首要原因

court for more than a decade is with -- isfor the issue of sexual abuse.(27)
法院十多年来一直是 - 涉及性虐待问题。

So this has not come as a surprise to survivorsand advocates.(28)
所以这对幸存者和拥护者来说并不意外。

JUDY WOODRUFF: You have said on your own thatyou believe that the church, in your experience,(29)
JUDY WOODRUFF:你自己说过,根据你的经验,你相信教会,

has not provided the kind of support, therelief to survivors of sexual abuse that it(30)
没有提供那种支持,对性虐待幸存者的救济就是这样

could.(31)
可以。

What do you base that belief on?(32)
你的信念基于什么?

RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER: Well, again, we seethe numbers in terms of the rate of abuse.(33)
RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER:嗯,我们再次看到滥用率的数字。

We see the numbers in terms of how many churchesare found liable for mishandling sexual assault(34)
我们看到有多少教会因处理不当性侵犯而受到责任

claims.(35)
索赔。

And, in addition to that, the survivor communityhas repeatedly said that the church has, unfortunately,(36)
而且,除此之外,幸存者社区一再表示,不幸的是,教会已经

been one of the worst places to go.(37)
是最糟糕的去处之一。

In a recent survey that asked survivors whatthey thought would be the most helpful vs.(38)
在最近的一项调查中,询问幸存者他们认为最有帮助的是什么?

what actually ended up being the most helpful,churches were listed as one of the things(39)
什么实际上最终是最有帮助的,教堂被列为事情之一

-- one of the institutions thought to be themost helpful, until survivors went for help.(40)
- 其中一个机构被认为是最有帮助的,直到幸存者寻求帮助。

And when survivors actually went for help,unfortunately, churches ranked dead last behind(41)
不幸的是,当幸存者真正寻求帮助时,教堂排在最后

the option of other.(42)
其他的选择。

And so, unfortunately -- again, this is nota problem that is new to survivors and advocates.(43)
所以,不幸的是 - 再次,这不是幸存者和拥护者的新问题。

JUDY WOODRUFF: In your own experience, hasthat been the case?(44)
JUDY WOODRUFF:根据你自己的经验,情况是这样的吗?

RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER: I have received bothends of the spectrum.(45)
RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER:我收到了频谱的两端。

I was abused in a church setting when I was7 years old.(46)
我7岁的时候在教堂里受虐待。

And I have -- I have had very negative experienceswith the church.(47)
我有 - 我对教会有非常负面的经历。

I have also had very positive experienceswith the church.(48)
我对教会也有非常积极的经历。

And so my hope is that, as the SBC is movingforward with these reforms, and with a growing(49)
所以我的希望是,随着SBC正在推进这些改革,并且正在不断发展

awareness of the problem, that more and moresurvivors will be able to experience the help(50)
对问题的认识,越来越多的幸存者将能够体验到这种帮助

and the comfort and the community that I experiencedfor one of my churches.(51)
以及我为我的一个教堂所体验到的舒适和社区。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And so these changes that werevoted on by the Southern Baptist Convention,(52)
JUDY WOODRUFF:以及南方浸信会大会投票通过的这些变化,

the SBC, to require churches to -- in effect,to require more disclosure, to ask the churches(53)
SBC,要求教会 - 实际上,要求更多的披露,要求教会

to step up, to do more, are these the kindsof changes that you think are going to make(54)
加强,做更多,这些是你认为会发生的变化

a difference?(55)
有区别吗?

RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER: I think these are absolutelythe first steps that need to be taken.(56)
RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER:我认为这些绝对是需要采取的第一步。

One of -- one of the critical steps that theSBC took was to amend the constitution to(57)
其中一个 - SBC采取的关键步骤之一是将宪法修改为

create a credentialing committee who can examineclaims of abuse and of churches mishandling(58)
建立一个资格认证委员会,负责审查虐待和教堂处理不当的主张

abuse.(59)
滥用。

And this is critical, because that providesgreater transparency, greater accountability,(60)
这是至关重要的,因为这提供了更大的透明度,更大的责任感,

and it puts the framework in place as we havenever had before for being able to deal with(61)
并且它使框架到位,因为我们以前从未有过能够处理的框架

these claims.(62)
这些说法。

The curriculum that has been put togetherto help equip churches on the journey towards(63)
已经整合的课程,以帮助装备教堂的旅程

understanding abuse and being able to bothprevent and respond to it is a critical first(64)
了解滥用行为以及能够预防和应对滥用行为至关重要

step.(65)
步。

That being said, again, survivors and advocatesare aware that this is a first step only.(66)
话虽如此,幸存者和拥护者都知道这只是第一步。

The frame and the foundation is going to beonly as good as what's built upon it.(67)
框架和基础将与建立在框架上的基础一样好。

And so my hope is that, as the SBC moves forward,they will build upon this solid frame and(68)
所以我的希望是,随着SBC向前发展,他们将建立在这个坚实的框架上

foundation.(69)
基础。

JUDY WOODRUFF: It's my understanding that,at the same time, you have said that some(70)
JUDY WOODRUFF:我的理解是,与此同时,你已经说了一些

in the Southern Baptist Convention are underminingthese changes, that they were clearing some(71)
南方浸信会公约正在破坏这些变化,他们正在清除一些变化

of the local churches that should have beenpunished, should have been reprimanded.(72)
那应该受到惩罚的地方教会应该受到谴责。

Why did you make that statement?(73)
你为什么要这样陈述?

RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER: Well, unfortunately,that's a matter of public record.(74)
RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER:不幸的是,这是公共记录的问题。

The SBC president, J.D. Greear, had put forwarda list of churches that he believed merited(75)
SBC主席JD Greear提出了一系列他认为值得信赖的教会

closer scrutiny for how they had handled sexualabuse claims.(76)
对他们如何处理性虐待索赔进行更仔细的审查。

But, within a matter of days, the SBC's ExecutiveCommittee, who was in charge of doing that(77)
但是,在几天之内,SBC执行委员会负责这样做

investigation, cleared seven out of those10 churches, without talking to survivors,(78)
调查,清除了这10个教堂中的7个,没有与幸存者交谈,

and, unfortunately, did so on a four-prongedbasis that was almost useless in evaluating(79)
并且,不幸的是,这是在四管齐下的基础上进行的,在评估时几乎无用

whether churches mishandle abuse.(80)
教会是否误解了虐待。

And advocates and survivors and experts inthe field of abuse could have explained to(81)
滥用领域的倡导者,幸存者和专家可以解释

the Executive committee that those four prongsthat they were using to evaluate were not(82)
执行委员会认为他们用来评估的四个分支不是

the correct standards to be using.(83)
要使用的正确标准。

They were not helpful guidelines to be using.(84)
它们不是有用的指导原则。

But, unfortunately, expert advice wasn't sought.(85)
但遗憾的是,没有寻求专家建议。

And so why that was done, I think is somethingthat the Executive Committee needs to wrestle(86)
那么为什么这样做,我认为是执行委员会需要努力的事情

with.(87)
用。

I believe there are some in the ExecutiveCommittee that made those decisions out of(88)
我相信执行委员会中有一些人做出了这些决定

ignorance.(89)
无知。

They simply didn't know.(90)
他们根本就不知道。

And there were some that made those decisionsknowing that those criteria they established(91)
还有一些人知道他们建立了这些标准,从而做出了这些决定

were not helpful and useful criteria.(92)
没有帮助和有用的标准。

So, unfortunately, we have seen efforts toundermine what is being done in the SBC.(93)
所以,不幸的是,我们已经看到了破坏SBC正在做的工作的努力。

That being said, the steps that were takentoday by the majority of SBC messengers, I(94)
话虽如此,大多数SBC使者今天采取的步骤,我

think, are very positive.(95)
认为,非常积极。

And so I am hopeful.(96)
所以我很有希望。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And that's what I wanted toask you, if you overall still have confidence(97)
JUDY WOODRUFF:如果你总体上仍然有信心,那就是我想问你的

that it's moving in the right direction.(98)
它正朝着正确的方向前进。

I do want to bring us back to Michigan StateUniversity, because today, as we reported(99)
我确实想把我们带回密歇根州立大学,因为今天正如我们所报道的那样

earlier, the former dean, who was also theboss of Dr. Larry Nassar, was convicted.(100)
早些时候,曾担任Larry Nassar博士老板的前院长被定罪。

He himself has now been convicted of criminalconduct, neglect of duty, acquitted of criminal(101)
他本人现在已经被判犯有犯罪行为,疏忽职守,无罪释放

sexual misconduct, though, but he could stillface up to years -- up to five years in prison.(102)
但是,性行为不端,但他仍然可能面临多年 - 最多五年的监禁。

What's your reaction to all this?(103)
你对这一切的反应是什么?

RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER: You know, Dean Strampel'snegligence in supervising Larry, his deliberate(104)
RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER:你知道,Dean Strampel疏忽监督Larry,他的故意

return, putting Larry back in the office,when he was under police investigation, is(105)
回来,拉里回到办公室,当他在警方的调查下,是

something that we have known for quite a longtime.(106)
我们已经知道了很长时间的事情。

So I am grateful to see the conviction forthat conduct.(107)
所以我很高兴看到这种行为的信念。

I think it is necessary and I think it isjust.(108)
我认为这是必要的,我认为这是公正的。

I am disappointed and discouraged to see thatthe survivors who reported assault by Strampel,(109)
看到Strampel袭击事件的幸存者,我感到失望和沮丧,

by Dean Strampel himself, were not believedby the jury, because we know, we understand(110)
由Dean Strampel本人,陪审团不相信,因为我们知道,我们理解

what Dr. Strampel's conduct was.(111)
Strampel博士的行为是什么。

His personnel file was full of warnings abouthis predatory behavior.(112)
他的人事档案充满了关于他的掠夺行为的警告。

And so I am disappointed to see a jury acquittalon that count.(113)
所以我很失望地看到陪审团无罪释放。

JUDY WOODRUFF: More broadly speaking, RachaelDenhollander, we know that a lot has happened(114)
JUDY WOODRUFF:更广泛地说,Rachael Denhollander,我们知道发生了很多事

since you initially came forward to be thefirst person to accuse Dr. Nassar.(115)
因为你最初是第一个指责Nassar博士的人。

We know that a number of institutions havemade changes as a result of the disclosures(116)
我们知道,许多机构因披露而做出了变更

by you and so many other -- so many otherwomen who suffered sexual abuse.(117)
由你和许多其他人 - 许多其他遭受性虐待的女性。

What do you think it all adds up to?(118)
您认为这一切加起来是什么?

Do you think things have changed enough?(119)
你认为事情已经发生了很大变化吗?

What do you think has been done right, andwhat more do you think needs to be done?(120)
您认为做得对,您认为还需要做些什么?

RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER: I think there is anextent to which we overestimate the change(121)
RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER:我认为我们在很大程度上高估了这一变化

that has been made, honestly, because wherethe -- where the real test comes is how we(122)
老实说,这是真的,因为真正的考验来自于我们如何

respond when it's in our own community.(123)
在我们自己的社区中做出回应。

How do we respond when it's our university,when it's our favorite sports team, our favorite(124)
当我们的大学,我们最喜欢的运动队是我们最喜欢的运动队时,我们如何回应

coach, when it's in our religious institution,or it's our political candidate, when it would(125)
教练,当它在我们的宗教机构,或者它是我们的政治候选人时,它会

cost something to care?(126)
需要注意什么?

And, by and large, we are still seeing a circlingof the wagons.(127)
而且,总的来说,我们仍然看到货车盘旋。

The statistics on the ability to convict sexoffenders have not shifted.(128)
关于性犯罪者定罪能力的统计数字没有改变。

We see an excellent case of this with theUniversity of Southern California, USC, where(129)
我们在南加州大学南加州大学看到了这方面的一个很好的例子

a gynecologist at USC, Dr. George Tyndall,has had over 500 women report sexual abuse.(130)
南加州大学的妇科医生George Tyndall博士已经有500多名女性报告了性虐待事件。

There are decades of evidence of nurses reportingDr. Tyndall's conduct, and yet there has not(131)
有数十年的证据表明护士报告了廷德尔博士的行为,但事实并非如此

been a single criminal charge filed in hiscase.(132)
在他的案件中提出了一项刑事指控。

So, the idea that we have had a massive culturalshift that makes it easy for survivors to(133)
因此,我们认为我们已经进行了大规模的文化转变,这使得幸存者能够轻松应对

speak up and easy to get justice, that's simplynot accurate.(134)
说起来容易得到正义,这根本就不准确。

We have a great deal of work left to do.(135)
我们还有很多工作要做。

And it starts with how we respond when it'sin our own community.(136)
它始于我们在自己的社区中的反应方式。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Very discouraging, but veryimportant to hear.(137)
JUDY WOODRUFF:非常令人沮丧,但听到非常重要。

Rachael Denhollander, thank you very much.(138)
Rachael Denhollander,非常感谢你。

RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER: Thank you.(139)
RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER:谢谢。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, for the record, we invitedJ.D. Greear, who's the president of the Southern(140)
JUDY WOODRUFF:并且,为了记录,我们邀请了南方总统JD Greear

Baptist Convention, to join us for an interview.(141)
浸信会,加入我们的采访。

He declined our request at this time.(142)
他此时拒绝了我们的请求。

And, tonight, U.S. Roman Catholic bishopsvoted to create a new national hot line for(143)
而且,今晚,美国罗马天主教主教投票决定创建新的全国热线

reporting sex abuse allegations.(144)
报告性虐待指控。

It would be run by an independent group, whowould relay claims of abuse to regional supervisory(145)
它将由一个独立的小组管理,该小组将滥用权利主张转交给地区监督

bishops.(146)
主教。

The service is supposed to begin operatingwithin a year.(147)
该服务应该在一年内开始运营。


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