Why the Trump administration is so concerned about Huawei
2019-05-14 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: For months, the Trump administrationhas been trying to persuade foreign countries(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:几个月来,特朗普政府一直试图说服外国

not to allow the Chinese telecommunicationscompany Huawei to build the latest generation(2)
不允许中国电信公司华为打造最新一代

of mobile networks.(3)
移动网络

But they are being met with skepticism byallies abroad.(4)
但他们遭到海外盟友的怀疑。

As Amna Nawaz reports, Trump administrationsofficials were on Capitol Hill today once(5)
正如Amna Nawaz报道的那样,特朗普政府官员今天曾在国会山一次

again making the case against Huawei.(6)
再次对华为提起诉讼。

AMNA NAWAZ: When the Senate Judiciary Committeeconvened today, it was clear that so-called(7)
AMNA NAWAZ:当参议院司法委员会今天召开会议时,显然是所谓的

5G technology is a brave new world for some.(8)
5G技术对某些人来说是一个勇敢的新世界。

SEN.(9)
SEN。

LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Today we're going totalk about something that is -- I am by no(10)
LINDSEY GRAHAM(R-SC):今天我们要讨论一些事情 - 我不是

means an expert on.(11)
意味着专家。

SEN.(12)
SEN。

DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA): I actually know verylittle about 5G.(13)
DIANNE FEINSTEIN(D-CA):我实际上对5G知之甚少。

AMNA NAWAZ: But others warned, the race to5G, or fifth-generation communications technology,(14)
AMNA NAWAZ:但是其他人警告说,竞争5G或第五代通信技术,

is well under way, and, they said, China'sin the lead.(15)
他们说,中国处于领先地位。

Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware:(16)
特拉华州民主党参议员Chris Coons:

SEN.(17)
SEN。

CHRIS COONS (D-DE): The very real potentialthat China will be the winner in this next(18)
CHRIS COONS(D-DE):中国将成为下一个赢家的真正潜力

generation of technology, and that will allowthem to both exploit and benefit from and(19)
技术的产生,这将使他们既可以利用也可以从中受益

potentially disrupt what we be always on,always present, central networks that drive(20)
可能会破坏我们永远存在的,始终存在的,驱动的中央网络

everything, from literally our vehicles, tohealth care, to national security, to our(21)
一切,从字面上我们的车辆,到医疗保健,到国家安全,到我们的

power system, is chilling and concerning.(22)
电力系统,令人不寒而栗。

AMNA NAWAZ: Indeed, China is moving rapidly.(23)
AMNA NAWAZ:事实上,中国正在迅速发展。

In Guiyang, for example, public transportationis now a 5G experience, with panoramic maps(24)
例如,在贵阳,公共交通现在是5G体验,带有全景地图

and on-board entertainment.(25)
和车载娱乐。

GUIYANG RESIDENT (through translator): The5G Wi-Fi is fast in speed without any stuttering,(26)
贵阳居民(通过翻译):5G Wi-Fi速度快,没​​有任何口吃,

even when you swipe your smartphone.(27)
即使你刷智能手机也是如此。

I am amazed by the facilities on the bus.(28)
我很惊讶公共汽车上的设施。

The 5G era is coming.(29)
5G时代即将来临。

AMNA NAWAZ: But the Trump administration arguesthat Chinese tech giant Huawei is susceptible(30)
AMNA NAWAZ:但特朗普政府辩称中国科技巨头华为很容易受到影响

to state pressure.(31)
陈述压力。

American officials have barred Huawei fromU.S. government contracts and are urging U.S.(32)
美国官员禁止华为与美国政府签订合同,并敦促美国

allies to follow suit.(33)
盟友效仿。

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo made the casein London last week.(34)
上周,国务卿迈克·庞培(Mike Pompeo)在伦敦提起诉讼。

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. Secretary of State: Whywould anyone grant such power to a regime(35)
MIKE POMPEO,美国国务卿:为什么有人会给政权这样的权力

that has already grossly violated cyberspace?(36)
那已经严重侵犯了网络空间?

This is exactly what China wants.(37)
这正是中国想要的。

They want to divide Western alliances throughbits and bytes, not bullets and bombs.(38)
他们希望通过比特和字节来划分西方联盟,而不是子弹和炸弹。

AMNA NAWAZ: Chinese officials dismiss Westernfears and say 5G, by definition, needs global(39)
AMNA NAWAZ:中国官员否认西方的担忧,并说5G,顾名思义,需要全球化

cooperation.(40)
合作。

GENG SHUANG, Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesperson(through translator): In the era of globalization,(41)
中国外交部发言人耿双(通过翻译):在全球化时代,

the attempts to introduce political factorsinto 5G development is not only detrimental(42)
将政治因素引入5G发展的尝试不仅是有害的

to the development of 5G, but also go againstthe common interests of the international(43)
要发展5G,也违背了国际的共同利益

community.(44)
社区。

AMNA NAWAZ: Amid the back-and-forth, AjitPai, the chair of the Federal Communications(45)
AMNA NAWAZ:联邦通信主席Ajit Pai来回走动

Commission, told the "NewsHour" last monththat he believes the 5G race is a winnable(46)
委员会上个月告诉“NewsHour”,他认为5G比赛是可以赢得的

one.(47)
一。

AJIT PAI, Chairman, Federal CommunicationsCommission: If you look at some of the independent(48)
联邦通信委员会主席AJIT PAI:如果你看一些独立的

observers, they believe that the United Statesis in the lead when it comes to 5G.(49)
观察家们认为,美国在5G方面处于领先地位。

For example, Cisco recently put out a reportsuggesting that North America, led, of course,(50)
例如,思科最近发布了一份报告,建议以北美为首,当然,

by the United States, would have twice asmany 5G connections as Asia by 2022.(51)
到2022年,美国的5G连接数将是亚洲的两倍。

AMNA NAWAZ: In the meantime, Huawei insistsit is independent, and its chairman pledged(52)
AMNA NAWAZ:与此同时,华为坚称它是独立的,其主席承诺

today to sign no-spying agreements with othercountries.(53)
今天与其他国家签署无间谍协议。

And with me now is Robert Strayer.(54)
现在和我在一起的是Robert Strayer。

He is deputy assistant secretary of statefor cyber and international communications(55)
他是网络和国际通信的副助理国务卿

and information policy.(56)
和信息政策。

Robert Strayer, welcome to the "NewsHour"(57)
Robert Strayer,欢迎来到“NewsHour”

ROBERT STRAYER, U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretaryof State: Thank you.(58)
美国副助理国务卿罗伯特斯蒂尔德:谢谢你。

Thank you for having me.(59)
谢谢你拥有我。

AMNA NAWAZ: So the U.S. has been on sort ofa diplomatic offensive for the last year,(60)
AMNA NAWAZ:去年美国一直在进行外交攻势,

trying to get the allies to shun Huawei.(61)
试图让盟友避开华为。

What is that argument you're making to othercountries?(62)
你对其他国家的论点是什么?

ROBERT STRAYER: Right.(63)
ROBERT STRAYER:对。

We're talking about the very importance of5G technology, that it's going to bring a(64)
我们正在谈论5G技术的重要性,它将带来一个

whole new level of prosperity to our societies.(65)
我们社会的全新繁荣程度。

It's going to empower all kinds of thingslike telemedicine, autonomous transportation(66)
它将赋予各种各样的东西,如远程医疗,自动运输

system, including autonomous vehicles, aswell as empower that critical infrastructure(67)
系统,包括自动驾驶车辆,以及授权关键基础设施

that we have today, such as electricity distribution.(68)
我们今天有的,比如配电。

That makes it a very important part of ourlives.(69)
这使它成为我们生活中非常重要的一部分。

So we're talking to these countries aboutthe need to also have it to also be a secure(70)
因此,我们正在与这些国家讨论是否需要让它也变得安全

type of technology.(71)
技术类型。

And it's because of all those important thingsthat ride on it that it needs to have the(72)
这是因为所有那些重要的东西都需要它才能拥有它

highest level of security.(73)
最高级别的安全性。

That requires looking at the supply chainof the vendor that is going to provide that(74)
这需要查看将提供该供应商的供应链

underlying 5G infrastructure.(75)
基础5G基础设施。

And so we say you need to look at the countryfrom which that technology is coming and the(76)
所以我们说你需要看看技术即将到来的国家和地区

ability of that government in a country toinfluence the vendor to take actions that(77)
一个国家的政府有能力影响供应商采取行动

are not in your country's interests or inyour citizens' interests.(78)
不符合您国家的利益或符合您公民的利益。

They could cause that technology to be disruptedthat would cause your electricity to be disrupted(79)
它们可能会导致技术中断,从而导致电力中断

or your provision of water or sewer or othervery important, critical services that the(80)
或者您提供的水或下水道或其他非常重要的关键服务

public needs to have available.(81)
公众需要有。

It also would provide the opportunity fora foreign power to conduct espionage on those(82)
它还将为外国势力提供对这些人进行间谍活动的机会

networks.(83)
网络。

AMNA NAWAZ: These are specific concerns youhave about the Chinese government and their(84)
AMNA NAWAZ:这些是您对中国政府及其政府的具体关注

influence over Huawei.(85)
对华为的影响。

Is that what you're saying?(86)
这就是你说的吗?

ROBERT STRAYER: Yes, that's exactly right.(87)
ROBERT STRAYER:是的,这是完全正确的。

AMNA NAWAZ: So, that argument doesn't seemto be catching fire with the other U.S. allies,(88)
AMNA NAWAZ:那么,这个论点似乎并没有引起其他美国盟友的批评,

right?(89)
对?

You just came back from this big conferencein Prague that was about 5G, 30-plus other(90)
你刚从布拉格这个大型会议回来,大约5G,30多个其他

nations.(91)
国家。

No one else has signed on to the ban at thatconference.(92)
没有其他人在该会议上签署禁令。

Why isn't that argument working?(93)
为什么这个论点不起作用?

ROBERT STRAYER: So our diplomatic campaignis first to get countries to acknowledge that(94)
罗伯特·斯蒂尔尔:所以我们的外交活动首先要让各国承认这一点

there is a risk here regarding the supplychain.(95)
供应链存在风险。

There is not a country out there or a telecommunicationsprovider that doesn't now acknowledge after(96)
没有一个国家或电信提供商现在没有承认

a year of our diplomatic effort that thereis a supply chain security risk that they(97)
我们外交努力的一年,他们有供应链安全风险

need to consider when they're building outtheir 5G network.(98)
需要考虑他们何时构建他们的5G网络。

So, we have been successful in that regard.(99)
所以,我们在这方面取得了成功。

We have also seen a number of countries alreadyimplement bans on Huawei technology, including(100)
我们还看到一些国家已经实施了对华为技术的禁令,包括

Australia and Japan.(101)
澳大利亚和日本。

We're continuing to have a dialogue with allof our partners.(102)
我们将继续与所有合作伙伴进行对话。

It's going to take a lot of education.(103)
这将需要大量的教育。

It's going to be a long-term process, as wesee 5G build out over a number of years.(104)
这将是一个长期的过程,因为我们看到5G建立了多年。

It is not going to happen immediately.(105)
它不会立即发生。

AMNA NAWAZ: But the U.S. has been moving withreal urgency here, right?(106)
AMNA NAWAZ:但是美国在这里真的很紧迫,对吗?

You say this is a national security problem.(107)
你说这是一个国家安全问题。

Only a handful of countries have signed on,not a single European country.(108)
只有少数几个国家签署了协议,而不是一个欧洲国家。

In fact, British intelligence has now saidthey think that they can mitigate the risk,(109)
事实上,英国情报部门现在表示他们认为可以降低风险,

whatever risk Huawei presents.(110)
华为提出的风险。

Why isn't the U.S. argument landing with yourallies?(111)
美国为什么不与你的盟友一起登陆?

ROBERT STRAYER: Well, I think it is landing,in the sense that they're acknowledging the(112)
罗伯特·斯蒂尔尔:嗯,我认为它正在着陆,因为他们承认了这一点

security risk that's at stake.(113)
安全风险受到威胁。

It's one of the top priorities for SecretaryPompeo and for the rest of us in the administration(114)
这是Pompeo秘书和我们其他人在政府中的首要任务之一

to make sure that we're continuing to educateour partners an allies about the risks that(115)
确保我们继续向我们的合作伙伴宣传有关风险的盟友

are at place here.(116)
在这里。

At the end of the day, it's going to be theirown sovereign decision about how best to implement(117)
最终,关于如何最好地实施,将是他们自己的主权决定

5G technologies in their society.(118)
社会中的5G技术。

They need to do it with open eyes and understandingof all the security risks that are at stake.(119)
他们需要睁大眼睛,了解所有危险的安全风险。

And because it's going to take so much time,we don't expect them to immediately implement(120)
而且因为它需要花费很多时间,所以我们不希望它们立即实施

bans.(121)
禁令。

We want them to adopt strong security-basedprotocols, so that they are recognizing all(122)
我们希望他们采用强大的基于安全性的协议,以便他们能够识别所有协议

the cyber-risks, as well as the supply chainrisks.(123)
网络风险以及供应链风险。

We think, when you rigorously apply the principleslike those that came out of the Czech Republic(124)
我们认为,当您严格执行捷克共和国以外的原则时

just two weeks ago that include looking atthe model of governance, whereas the European(125)
就在两周前,其中包括了解治理模式,而欧洲则是这样

Commission said at the end of March that theyshould look at the legal regime as well, including(126)
委员会在3月底表示,他们也应该考虑法律制度,包括

the ability of a third country to influencethe vendor.(127)
第三国影响供应商的能力。

We think, when you apply those, there's noway that you should have Huawei in your government's(128)
我们认为,当你申请时,你不可能在你的政府中拥有华为

network.(129)
网络。

AMNA NAWAZ: Do you think the U.S. has a credibilityproblem making this argument to other countries(130)
AMNA NAWAZ:你认为美国有可信度问题向其他国家提出这个论点

at this time?(131)
此时?

There's strained relationships a lot of ourallies and the Trump administration.(132)
很多盟友和特朗普政府之间的关系紧张。

The warning is, beware, this country couldspy on you, when the U.S.' own spying program(133)
警告是,当美国自己的间谍计划时,这个国家可能会监视你

over the last several years has been laidbare for the world to see.(134)
过去几年已经为全世界所见。

Does that complicate your job?(135)
这会使你的工作变得复杂吗?

ROBERT STRAYER: No, not at all.(136)
ROBERT STRAYER:不,一点也不。

We have frank conversations over years withall of our partners about security concerns.(137)
多年来,我们与所有合作伙伴就安全问题进行了坦诚的对话。

And because this is particularly focused juston security, that's an easy conversation for(138)
而且因为这特别关注安全性,所以这是一个简单的对话

us to have with other governments.(139)
我们与其他政府合作。

We can continue to have very in-depth conversationsabout security.(140)
我们可以继续就安全性进行非常深入的对话。

AMNA NAWAZ: So, a Huawei official said todaythat they're a private company, they're under(141)
AMNA NAWAZ:所以,一位华为官员今天表示,他们是一家私人公司,他们不在

no obligation to work with the government.(142)
没有义务与政府合作。

A spokesman also said they'd be willing tosign a no-spy agreement.(143)
一位发言人还表示,他们愿意签署一份无间谍协议。

Is there a world in which you see there couldbe a meeting, a sort of halfway, a compromise?(144)
有没有一个世界,你可以看到会议,中途,妥协?

Or will the U.S. only support an all-out ban?(145)
或者美国是否只支持全面禁令?

ROBERT STRAYER: It's a completely fecklesspoint to make on their part.(146)
罗伯特·斯蒂尔尔:这对他们来说是一个完全无懈可击的观点。

There is no differentiation really betweenthe private sector in companies and the government(147)
公司的私营部门和政府之间没有真正的区别

in China.(148)
在中国。

The government, through the national intelligencelaw and other laws that it has at its disposal,(149)
政府通过国家情报法和其拥有的其他法律,

can compel companies to take action.(150)
可以迫使公司采取行动。

And then there's no way for that company toobject.(151)
那个公司没办法反对。

There's no such thing as independent judicialredress.(152)
没有独立的司法救济这样的事情。

They are subject completely to the directionof the Chinese Communist Party.(153)
他们完全受中国共产党的指导。

So it's impossible for an official to makesuch an attestation that they won't do this,(154)
因此,官员不可能做出这样的证明,他们不会这样做,

because they can be ordered the next day todo so by the Chinese Communist Party and Xi(155)
因为他们可以在第二天被中国共产党和习近平订购

Jinping.(156)
锦屏。

AMNA NAWAZ: In some ways, calling for a ban,some people will say, is sort of addressing(157)
AMNA NAWAZ:有些人会说,在某些方面,要求禁令是一种解决方式

a problem that's already out there, if thereis one.(158)
一个已经存在的问题,如果有的话。

Huawei says they're in 170 countries, workingwith governments and customers there.(159)
华为称,他们在170个国家与政府和客户合作。

And the argument for the countries that wantto work with them is, look, they build good(160)
想要与他们合作的国家的论点是,看起来,他们建立良好

gear, it's reliable, and it's cheap.(161)
齿轮,它可靠,而且价格便宜。

So what's the incentive for a country to wantto get potentially behind in technology -- technological(162)
那么一个国家想要在技术方面可能落后的动机是什么呢?

advancement, and pay more to do that?(163)
进步,并支付更多这样做?

ROBERT STRAYER: Well, first, we would saythat there's no reason that you would fall(164)
罗伯特·斯蒂尔:嗯,首先,我们会说没有理由让你堕落

behind technologically by going with somethingthat's more trusted, like the gear that's(165)
在技​​术上落后于一些更值得信赖的东西,比如装备

being provided by Ericsson, Nokia and Samsung.(166)
由爱立信,诺基亚和三星提供。

Their technology is just as good as Huawei,without taking on that additional security(167)
他们的技术与华为一样好,没有采取额外的安全措施

risk.(168)
风险。

AMNA NAWAZ: You would argue that they arewhere Huawei is?(169)
AMNA NAWAZ:你会说他们是华为的所在地吗?

Huawei is the clear global leader in thisfield right now.(170)
华为目前是该领域的全球领导者。

ROBERT STRAYER: Well, they have a slightlylarge market share.(171)
ROBERT STRAYER:嗯,他们的市场份额略大。

When you look at the number of trials thatare in the field right now, there's more done(172)
当你看一下现在的试验数量时,还有更多工作要做

by Ericsson than even Huawei.(173)
由爱立信甚至比华为。

Over time, we're going to see much more developmentin this field.(174)
随着时间的推移,我们将在这个领域看到更多的发展。

We shouldn't be rushing out there to choosethe cheapest alternative right now.(175)
我们现在不应急于选择最便宜的替代品。

The other companies are going to provide increasingamounts of capability on their systems.(176)
其他公司将在其系统上提供越来越多的功能。

AMNA NAWAZ: Robert Strayer, thank you verymuch for being here.(177)
AMNA NAWAZ:Robert Strayer,非常感谢你能来到这里。

ROBERT STRAYER: Thank you for having me.(178)
ROBERT STRAYER:谢谢你拥有我。


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