After failed census legal fight, how Trump plans to get citizenship information
2019-07-11 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: President Trump says he's backingdown from his legal fight to add a controversial(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:特朗普总统说他正在退出他的法律斗争,以增加一个有争议的

citizenship question to the 2020 census.(2)
到2020年人口普查的公民身份问题。

The Supreme Court had already ruled that theadministration's previous explanations didn't(3)
最高法院已经裁定政府以前的解释没有

justify adding the question.(4)
证明添加问题是正确的。

In remarks in the White House Rose Gardenlate today, the president said he is pursuing(5)
在今天晚些时候白宫玫瑰园的讲话中,总统说他正在追求

new avenues to get that information.(6)
获得这些信息的新途径。

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:We are pursuing a new option to ensure a complete(7)
DONALD TRUMP,美国总统:我们正在寻求一种新方案来确保完整

and timely count of the non-citizen population.(8)
并及时统计非公民人口。

Today, I will be issuing an executive orderto put this very plan into effect immediately.(9)
今天,我将发布行政命令,立即实施这项计划。

I am hereby ordering every department andagency in the federal government to provide(10)
我特此命令联邦政府的每个部门和机构提供

the Department of Commerce with all requestedrecords regarding the number of citizens and(11)
商务部提供有关公民人数的所有要求记录

noncitizens in our country.(12)
我国的非公民。

They must furnish all legally accessible recordsin their possession immediately.(13)
他们必须立即提供所有合法可获得的记录。

We will utilize these vast federal databasesto gain a full, complete and accurate count(14)
我们将利用这些庞大的联邦数据库来获得完整,完整和准确的数据

of the non-citizen population, including databasesmaintained by the Department of Homeland Security(15)
非公民人口,包括国土安全部维护的数据库

and the Social Security Administration.(16)
和社会保障局。

We have great knowledge in many of our agencies.(17)
我们在许多机构都有很好的知识。

We will leave no stone unturned.(18)
我们将不遗余力。

JUDY WOODRUFF: We turn now for more to threeof our "NewsHour" correspondents, Yamiche(19)
JUDY WOODRUFF:我们现在转向更多我们的三名“NewsHour”记者Yamiche

Alcindor, who is at the White House, plusAmna Nawaz and Lisa Desjardins here with me(20)
Alcindor在白宫,加上Amna Nawaz和Lisa Desjardins和我在一起

in the studio.(21)
在工作室里。

Yamiche, let me come to you.(22)
Yamiche,让我来找你。

The president had been, it seemed, determinedto add this citizenship question one way or(23)
看来,总统似乎决心以某种方式添加这一公民身份问题

another to the census.(24)
另一个人口普查。

Now he's backed down.(25)
现在他退缩了。

Why?(26)
为什么?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Well, this is a big lossfor President Trump.(27)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:嗯,这对特朗普总统来说是一个巨大的损失。

And he's essentially admitting that he can'targue for the citizenship question to be added(28)
他基本上承认他不能争论要添加的公民身份问题

to the census in time without jeopardizingthe census itself.(29)
及时进行人口普查而不会危害人口普查本身。

The Supreme Court ruled that the administration'sreasoning was essentially contrived and that(30)
最高法院裁定,政府的推理基本上是人为的

they were arguing that the Voting Rights Actneeded to be better enforced, that, of course,(31)
他们认为投票权法案需要更好地执行,当然,

being the Voting Rights Act that's supposedto be prohibiting racial discrimination on(32)
作为投票权法案,应该禁止种族歧视

-- in voting.(33)
- 投票。

That argument didn't fly.(34)
那个论点没有发生。

And the president and the government had beenscrambling to come up with a solution.(35)
总统和政府一直在争先恐后地想出一个解决方案。

Instead, the president saying now, essentially,they can't do that without essentially putting(36)
相反,总统现在说,基本上,他们不能在没有基本上放的情况下这样做

at risk the census.(37)
人口普查面临风险。

The census is already being printed.(38)
人口普查已经开始印刷。

Now, critics say that this is already a chillingeffect, because the census is tied directly(39)
现在,批评者说这已经是一种令人不寒而栗的影响,因为人口普查是直接联系在一起的

to how we distribute money in this country,how we draw congressional lines, and it's(40)
我们如何在这个国家分配资金,我们如何绘制国会线,以及它

tied to the Electoral College.(41)
与选举团联系在一起。

So there's already, some people fear, a chillingeffect that immigrants will not want to fill(42)
因此,有些人担心,移民不愿意填补这种寒蝉效应

out the census.(43)
人口普查。

But, that said, the president essentiallyis conceding here that he just can't get done(44)
但是,那就是说,总统基本上在这里承认他无法完成

what he wanted to do.(45)
他想做什么。

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Yamiche, by asking allgovernment agencies to turn this information(46)
JUDY WOODRUFF:所以,Yamiche,要求所有政府机构提供这些信息

about citizens, non-citizens over to the CommerceDepartment, what exactly is the president(47)
关于公民,非公民到商务部,总统究竟是什么

trying to do?(48)
试着做什么?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: The president is essentiallynow asking every single agency in the federal(49)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:总统现在基本上要求联邦中的每一个机构

government to turn over whatever records theyhave on citizenship or non-citizenship to(50)
政府将任何有关公民身份或非公民身份的记录交给

the Commerce Department, so that they cannow have some sort of database where they(51)
商务部,他们现在可以拥有某种数据库

can make a sort of official count of who'san immigrant and essentially who's not an(52)
可以做一个官方统计谁是移民谁基本上谁不是一个

immigrant in this country.(53)
这个国家的移民。

That being said, there are people who essentiallysay that this is about the president, in some(54)
话虽这么说,有人基本上说这是关于总统的,有些人

ways, spreading fear in the immigrant community.(55)
方式,在移民社区传播恐惧。

Immigration activists that I have been talkingto say, this dovetails with a lot of other(56)
我一直在谈论的移民活动家说,这与其他许多人相吻合

things that the administration is doing, thatit's not happening in a vacuum.(57)
政府正在做的事情,它不是在真空中发生的。

So you look at the idea that the presidentis trying to change the way that asylum works(58)
所以你看看总统试图改变庇护工作方式的想法

in this country.(59)
在这个国家。

The president's also having these detentionfacilities that people say have Troubling(60)
总统也有这些拘留设施,人们说有麻烦

conditions, but he's also now targeting immigrantfamilies for some sort of mass raids going(61)
条件,但他现在也针对移民家庭进行某种大规模袭击

on this weekend.(62)
在这个周末。

So people are saying that this is part ofthe president really trying to strike fear(63)
所以人们都说这是总统真正试图打击恐惧的一部分

into the hearts of immigrants.(64)
进入移民的心中。

And that is, unfortunately, working.(65)
不幸的是,工作。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Yamiche, and we are going totry to come back to you in a minute.(66)
JUDY WOODRUFF:Yamiche,我们将在一分钟内回复你。

But, meantime, Amna, you have been talkingto Homeland Security officials.(67)
但是,与此同时,Amna,你一直在和国土安全部官员谈话。

What do we know about whether there may bethese massive roundups or raids of immigrants(68)
我们怎么知道是否会有这些大规模的集会或突袭移民

over the weekend?(69)
整个周末?

AMNA NAWAZ: Yes, Yamiche is exactly right.(70)
AMNA NAWAZ:是的,Yamiche是完全正确的。

This is a key issue for the administration.(71)
这是政府的一个关键问题。

We know the president has tweeted about massraids like this before.(72)
我们知道总统曾发布过有关此类大规模搜查的推文。

It looks more likely now for a few reasons.(73)
现在看起来更有可能是出于几个原因。

Look, ICE is basically saying they're targetinggetting people who are here undocumented and(74)
看,ICE基本上都说他们的目标是让那些在这里无人问津的人

who have been given final removal orders.(75)
谁被给予最后的清除命令。

What that means is, they came to the UnitedStates, they made a claim of protection of(76)
这意味着,他们来到美国,他们提出了保护要求

some kind, asylum or something else.(77)
某种,庇护或其他。

That was denied by a court.(78)
那被法院否决了。

They're now ready to be deported.(79)
他们现在准备被驱逐出境了。

And there's a backlog of these people, severalhundred thousand or so.(80)
这些人积压了数十万左右。

It's an enormous logistical undertaking torun this kind of raid; 2,000 people or so(81)
进行这种突袭是一项巨大的后勤工作; 2000人左右

are expected to be targeted in cities acrossthe country, weeks of investigative effort(82)
预计将在全国各城市进行数周的调查工作

to figure out where they live, verify theiraddresses, make sure kids aren't going to(83)
找出他们住的地方,核实他们的地址,确保孩子不去

be abandoned if parents are picked up...(84)
父母被接走后被抛弃......

(CROSSTALK)
JUDY WOODRUFF: These are families.(85)
JUDY WOODRUFF:这些是家庭。

AMNA NAWAZ: ... school.(86)
AMNA NAWAZ:......学校。

They are families.(87)
他们是家庭。

They are indeed.(88)
确实如此。

Now, what are the reasons we think ICE isable to do something like this right now is(89)
现在,我们认为ICE现在可以做这样的事情的原因是什么

what a senior DHS official told me yesterday.(90)
国土安全部高级官员昨天告诉我的是什么。

Those record border crossings we were seeingin previous months, they dipped slightly last(91)
我们在前几个月看到的那些创纪录的过境点,最后略有下降

month . That took pressure off the entiresystem.(92)
一个月。这给整个系统带来了压力。

They're no longer surged past capacity interms of detention beds.(93)
在拘留床方面,他们不再飙升。

They believe they have the space to go getsome of these people, detain them, and then(94)
他们相信他们有足够的空间去抓住这些人,扣留他们,然后

properly deport them through the channels.(95)
通过渠道妥善驱逐他们。

One of the reasons they're getting pushback,though, is a lot of those removal order are(96)
然而,他们获得推迟的原因之一是很多这些删除令

issued in what's called in absentia, meaningpeople weren't there in the court when those(97)
在缺席的情况下发布,意味着人们在法庭上不在那里

orders were issued by a judge.(98)
命令由法官发布。

They don't know if people even know that theyare supposed to be deported.(99)
他们不知道人们是否知道他们应该被驱逐出境。

This happens a lot within immigrant communities.(100)
这种情况在移民社区中发生了很多。

There's already a legal challenge trying toprotect those people from deportation.(101)
试图保护这些人免遭驱逐已经存在法律挑战。

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Amna, we know some in theTrump administration are saying, this is not(102)
JUDY WOODRUFF:所以,Amna,我们知道特朗普政府中的一些人说,事实并非如此

new.(103)
新。

Previous administrations have rounded up immigrantsbefore.(104)
此前的政府已经将移民问题纳入其中。

What is the case?(105)
怎么回事?

What's the truth about that?(106)
这有什么道理?

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, that's absolutely true.(107)
AMNA NAWAZ:嗯,这绝对是真的。

I mean, President Obama earned the nicknamedeporter in chief because he deported more(108)
我的意思是,奥巴马总统获得了绰号驱逐出境者,因为他更多地驱逐出境

people than any previous president; 2,000people doesn't seem like that many.(109)
人比任何以前的总统; 2000人似乎并不那么多。

It's a lot for a short period of time.(110)
这在很短的时间内很多。

ICE says they have the capacity to be ableto do that.(111)
ICE表示他们有能力做到这一点。

But, look, the other problem is that, in detention,there's been so many concerns about those(112)
但是,看,另一个问题是,在拘留期间,对这些人的关注太多了

conditions, as Yamiche mentioned earlier,allegations of abuse, squalid conditions,(113)
条件,如前面提到的Yamiche,虐待指控,肮脏的条件,

how children are properly cared for or notcared for and family detention.(114)
如何照顾或不照顾儿童和家人拘留。

There's a number of reasons there's concernabout additional people being brought into(115)
有很多原因引起了人们对其他人的关注

ICE custody and detention right now.(116)
ICE现在监管和拘留。

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Lisa, let me turn to younow.(117)
JUDY WOODRUFF:所以,丽莎,让我现在转向你。

We have seen much of this before.(118)
我们之前已经看过很多这样的事了。

Democrats and others in Congress are pushingback.(119)
国会中的民主党人和其他人正在推迟。

What are they doing?(120)
他们在做什么?

LISA DESJARDINS: We're seeing Democrats flexmore muscle.(121)
LISA DESJARDINS:我们看到民主党人更加强大。

I think this is sort of phase two of how they'retrying to confront this president, as the(122)
我认为这是他们试图面对这位总统的第二阶段

opposition party.(123)
反对党。

We saw just today the House Judiciary Committeeauthorized subpoenas for 12 very high-ranking(124)
我们今天看到众议院司法委员会批准了12个非常高级别的传票

current and former Trump administration officials.(125)
现任和前任特朗普政府官员。

This includes Jared Kushner, also former campaignmanager Corey Lewandowski, former Chief of(126)
这包括Jared Kushner,前任竞选经理Corey Lewandowski,前任首席执行官

Staff John Kelly.(127)
工作人员约翰凯利。

This is -- these people couldn't be questionedon two things, one, their relations to the(128)
这是 - 这些人不能被质疑两件事,一件事,他们与...的关系

Mueller report, but also, Judy, these subpoenasdirectly talk about the zero tolerance policy(129)
穆勒报告,也是,朱迪,这些传票直接谈到零容忍政策

and child separation at the border.(130)
和边境的儿童分离。

These Democrats are saying, we have not gottensatisfying answers from Homeland Security(131)
这些民主党人说,我们没有得到国土安全部的满意答案

or the Trump administration in terms of whatit is doing, is it legal?(132)
或特朗普政府在做什么方面,这是合法的吗?

And they will now subpoena these officials.(133)
他们现在将传唤这些官员。

Of course, the problem is, we have seen theTrump administration -- the problem for Democrats(134)
当然,问题在于,我们看到特朗普政府 - 民主党的问题

-- has said they don't feel that they needto comply with things subpoenas.(135)
- 表示他们并不认为他们需要遵守传票。

So Democrats are also taking another stepthere.(136)
所以民主党人也在那里迈出了一步。

Next week, they have announced they will takea vote on the House floor to file criminal(137)
下周,他们宣布他们将在众议院进行投票,以便提起诉讼

contempt against Attorney General Barr andalso the commerce secretary, Wilbur Ross,(138)
蔑视检察长巴尔和商务部长威尔伯罗斯,

for their noncompliance, in the view of theHouse, with subpoenas about the census question.(139)
众议院认为,他们不遵守人口普查问题的传票。

And so this will be a very -- this is -- kindof is closest to clear combat as you can get(140)
所以这将是一个非常 - 这是 - 最接近明确的战斗,你可以得到

in a legislative sense.(141)
在立法意义上。

Now, then that goes to the courts.(142)
现在,那就是法庭。

And this takes a long time to enforce.(143)
这需要很长时间才能执行。

But Democrats are stepping things up.(144)
但民主党人正在踩着东西。

One other note, Judy, about these ICE raids.(145)
另一个注意事项,朱迪,关于这些ICE突袭。

You and Amna hit on such a key point thatI have heard from Republicans today, notably.(146)
你和Amna的关键点是我今天从共和党人那里听到的,特别是。

Republicans are a little nervous about theseICE raids, because they are worried about,(147)
共和党人对这些ICE袭击有点紧张,因为他们担心,

in their communities, they see labor shortages.(148)
在他们的社区,他们看到劳动力短缺。

They have seen in the past large raids likethis, even under Obama, affect families and(149)
他们在过去看到过像这样的大规模袭击,即使在奥巴马的统治下也会影响家庭和家庭

communities in very difficult ways.(150)
社区以非常困难的方式。

And they are concerned about how this willbe enacted.(151)
他们担心这将如何制定。

I talked to multiple Republicans who are justunsure and worried about how this goes.(152)
我与多位共和党人谈过,他们只是不确定并担心这种情况如何。

They're watching very carefully.(153)
他们非常仔细地看着。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Very interesting, being watchedfrom so many different directions.(154)
JUDY WOODRUFF:非常有趣,从许多不同的方向观看。

As if this weren't enough going on at theWhite House today, Yamiche, I want to come(155)
好像今天在白宫进行的还不够,Yamiche,我想来

back to you, because the president hostedsomething that the White House had talked(156)
回到你身边,因为总统接待了白宫谈过的话

about.(157)
关于。

This was a summit to discuss social mediaand what is allowed and what isn't.(158)
这是一个讨论社交媒体的峰会,以及允许和不允许的内容。

Tell us about what took place there at thatgathering.(159)
告诉我们那场聚会发生了什么。

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: The goal of this socialmedia summit at the White House today was(160)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:今天在白宫举行的社交媒体峰会的目标是

really to argue that conservatives are beingunfairly targeted and discriminated against(161)
真的要说保守派被不公平地定位和歧视

by social media giants like Twitter and Facebook.(162)
社交媒体巨头如Twitter和Facebook。

Now, neither one of those companies were invitedto this social media gathering.(163)
现在,这些公司都没有被邀请参加这个社交媒体聚会。

The president says he wants to invite thosecompanies to the White House later on.(164)
总统说他希望稍后邀请这些公司到白宫。

But the president was essentially saying,we don't want to be censored as Republicans.(165)
但总统基本上说,我们不想被视为共和党人。

And he was saying that people that are pro-life,that are pro-Trump, their accounts are being(166)
而且他说的是那些支持特朗普的亲生命的人,他们的帐户正在存在

targeted and even being pulled down.(167)
有针对性甚至被拉下来。

There are people, of course, that disagreewith that view.(168)
当然,有些人不同意这种观点。

There are people who say this was really agathering of far right individuals and at(169)
有人说这真的是一个极右派人士的聚会

times bad Internet actors.(170)
时代坏的互联网演员。

One person that was at the White House todaywas a Twitter user who spread the racist idea(171)
今天在白宫的一个人是传播种族主义思想的Twitter用户

that Senator Kamala Harris wasn't black enoughto speak for African-Americans because her(172)
参议员卡玛拉哈里斯不够黑,不能为非裔美国人说话,因为她

mother's Indian and her father is Jamaican.(173)
母亲的印度人和她的父亲是牙买加人。

So there's a lot of back and forth on this.(174)
所以这里有很多来回。

There are a lot of people who think this wasn'ta good gathering, and that other people should(175)
有很多人认为这不是一个好的聚会,而其他人应该这样

have been more -- invited to this, that thisshould have been a more inclusive setting.(176)
更多 - 邀请到这一点,这应该是一个更具包容性的环境。

So, overall, there are a lot of complaintsabout this.(177)
总的来说,对此有很多抱怨。

But, in a few weeks, there will be some socialmedia sites coming to the White House.(178)
但是,几个星期后,将有一些社交媒体网站进入白宫。

So that will continue to develop.(179)
所以这将继续发展。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And then just quickly, AmnaNawaz, you have done some reporting about(180)
JUDY WOODRUFF:然后很快,Amna Nawaz,你做了一些报道

that gathering and some of the language thatwas used there today.(181)
收集和今天在那里使用的一些语言。

AMNA NAWAZ: That's right.(182)
AMNA NAWAZ:没错。

Some of those people Yamiche mentioned whothey self-identify as conservative, or also(183)
Yamiche中的一些人提到了他们自我认同为保守的人,或者也是

identified by people who track extremist ordangerous rhetoric online as alt-right or(184)
由在线追踪极端主义或危险言论的人确定为alt-right或

far right or extremist kind of views, theywere in the room, some of them aligned with(185)
极右或极端主义的观点,他们在房间里,其中一些与之对齐

white nationalist kind of language as well.(186)
白人民族主义者也是一种语言。

And there was a recent study by a group calledthe Institute for Strategic Dialogue which(187)
最近由一个名为战略对话研究所的小组进行了一项研究

looked at how -- and this is around the world,but also true here in the U.S. -- a lot of(188)
看看这是怎样的 - 这是世界各地,但在美国也是如此 - 很多

that language that previously existed onlyreally on the far right fringes has become(189)
以前只存在于极右边缘的语言已成为现实

much more mainstream, particularly throughthe use of social media.(190)
更主流,特别是通过使用社交媒体。

So that was something they were watching todayand a trend that they have been seeing increasing(191)
所以这是他们今天看到的东西,以及他们看到的趋势越来越多

around the world, as I said, but really herein the U.S. as well.(192)
正如我所说,世界各地,但在美国也是如此。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Disturbing news on so manyfronts today.(193)
JUDY WOODRUFF:今天在如此多的战线上令人不安的消息。

Thank you, all three, Amna Nawaz, Lisa Desjardins,Yamiche Alcindor at the White House.(194)
谢谢你,三个人,Amna Nawaz,Lisa Desjardins,白宫的Yamiche Alcindor。

Thank you.(195)
谢谢。

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Thanks.(196)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:谢谢。


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