Does the Scooter Libby pardon have implications for the Russia probe?
2018-04-13 00:00:00


JOHN YANG: Now back to President Trump's pardonof a Bush administration official.(1)
杨约翰:现在回到特朗普总统对布什政府官员的赦免。

In a statement, the president said he doesn'tknow Scooter Libby, but heard for years that(2)
总统在一份声明中表示,他不认识Scooter Libby,但听说多年

he had been mistreated.(3)
他遭到虐待。

I. Lewis Libby, who goes by Scooter, was VicePresident Dick Cheney's chief of staff.(4)
一,由斯科特出任的刘易斯·利比是副总统迪克切尼的参谋长。

He came under investigation in 2003, afterspeculation that he leaked the identity of(5)
他在2003年接受调查后,猜测他泄露了身份

a secret CIA operative Valerie Plame, to newspaperreporters.(6)
一个秘密的中央情报局工作人员Valerie Plame,向记者报道。

Plame's husband, former Ambassador JosephWilson, had criticized the Bush administration's(7)
普拉梅的丈夫,前大使约瑟夫威尔逊曾批评布什政府

rationale for invading Iraq.(8)
入侵伊拉克的理由。

In 2007, a federal court found him guiltyof four felonies, including lying to investigators(9)
2007年,联邦法院判定他有四项重罪,包括对调查人员撒谎

and a grand jury, and obstructing justice.(10)
和一个大陪审团,阻挠司法。

Libby was sentenced to 2.5 years in federalprison and a $250,000 fine.(11)
利比在联邦监狱被判处2.5年徒刑并罚款25万美元。

Before he went to prison, President GeorgeW. Bush commuted his sentence, but rejected(12)
在他入狱之前,乔治布什总统改判了他的判决,但遭到拒绝

pleas from Cheney to pardon him.(13)
从切尼请求赦免他。

Before Libby's pardon, today, Plame questionedMr. Trump's motivations.(14)
在利比赦免之前,今天,普拉梅质疑特朗普的动机。

VALERIE PLAME, Former CIA Agent: This is definitelynot about me.(15)
VALERIE PLAME,前CIA特工:这绝对不是我的事。

It's absolutely not about Scooter Libby.(16)
这绝对不是关于Scooter Libby的。

It's is about Donald Trump and his future.(17)
这是关于唐纳德特朗普和他的未来。

The message being sent is, you can commitperjury, and I will pardon, if it protects(18)
发送的信息是,你可以犯下伪证,如果它受到保护,我会赦免

me, and I deem that you are loyal to me.(19)
我,我认为你是忠于我的。

JOHN YANG: To discuss the pardon and its possibleimplications for the Russia investigation,(20)
JOHN YANG:讨论俄罗斯调查的赦免及其可能的影响,

we're joined by Richard Ben-Veniste.(21)
我们加入了Richard Ben-Veniste。

He's a partner at the Washington office ofMayer Brown.(22)
他是迈尔布朗华盛顿办事处的合伙人。

He served on the 9/11 Commission and he waschief of the special prosecutor's Watergate(23)
他曾在9/11委员会任职,并担任特别检察官的水门事件主管

Task Force.(24)
专案组。

Mr. Ben-Veniste, thanks and welcome.(25)
Ben-Veniste先生,感谢和欢迎。

First of all, what's your reaction to thispardon?(26)
首先,你对这个赦免有什么反应?

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, Former 9/11 CommissionMember: I think it's the president flexing(27)
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE,前9/11委员会成员:我认为这是总统的表现

his pardon power.(28)
他的赦免权。

It also serves to poke a finger in the eyeof the intelligence community.(29)
它也可以用来在情报界捅下一根手指。

The disclosures relating to Valerie Plamethat ended her career, effectively, as an(30)
有关Valerie Plame的披露最终以她的职业生涯结束了她的职业生涯

undercover operative, case officer of theCIA, was a big blow, and they're feeling it.(31)
中央情报局的秘密行动,案件官员是一个很大的打击,他们感觉到了。

JOHN YANG: There was a lot made at the timeduring the trial that Libby was protecting(32)
JOHN YANG:在Libby保护期间的审判期间做了很多工作

the vice president.(33)
副总裁。

Is this a message?(34)
这是一条消息吗?

Is a message being sent to people in the Russiainvestigation?(35)
是否向俄罗斯调查中的人们发送了一条消息?

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE: I think the message thethere, and it has been repeated often before(36)
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE:我认为那里有这个信息,而且之前经常重复

this pardon that the president might exercisehis pardon power with respect to individuals(37)
赦免总统可能对个人行使赦免权

such as Mr. Flynn, such as Mr. Manafort, andsuch as perhaps others who are caught up in(38)
比如弗林先生,比如玛纳福特先生,以及也许还有其他被卷入的人

the investigation of the Russian interferencein the 2016 election.(39)
调查俄罗斯干预2016年选举。

It's interesting to note that, in Watergate,the offers of presidential clemency that were(40)
有趣的是,在水门事件中,总统宽恕的提议是

secretly made to Watergate burglars were apart of the conspiracy to obstruct justice.(41)
秘密制造给水门事件的窃贼是阻挠司法的阴谋的一部分。

Here, in bright lights, there is discussionof whether individuals who may have damaging(42)
这里,在明亮的灯光下,讨论是否有可能造成损害的个人

information about the president will be pardonedor subject to clemency.(43)
关于总统的信息将被赦免或受到宽大处理。

JOHN YANG: So could you make an obstructionof justice case, do you think?(44)
杨约翰:那么你可以阻挠司法案件吗?你认为呢?

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE: Well, it's a matter ofthe president's intent in exercising a constitutionally(45)
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE:呃,这是总统打算按宪法行事的意图

given power, the power of the pardon, whichis explicit.(46)
给予权力,赦免的权力,这是明确的。

Only if it is exercised for corrupt purposesand with a corrupt intent would there be a(47)
只有当它被用于腐败目的和腐败意图时,才会有一个

violation of law.(48)
违反法律。

JOHN YANG: There's been a lot of talk aboutthe president threatening or talking about(49)
杨约翰:有很多关于总统威胁或谈论的话题

firing the deputy attorney general, Rosenstein,as a way of getting someone who might fire(50)
解雇副检察长罗森斯坦,作为一个找到可能会开枪的人的方法

Robert Mueller, the special counsel.(51)
特别顾问罗伯特穆勒。

It reminds a lot of people of the SaturdayNight Massacre during Watergate.(52)
它提醒了水门事件期间周六夜间大屠杀的很多人。

Would that amount to -- I mean, could youmake an obstruction of justice case out of(53)
这是否意味着 - 我的意思是,你能否阻碍司法公正

that?(54)
那?

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE: You could, again, ifthere was evidence that the intention, if(55)
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE:如果有证据表明有意,你可以再次

such a firing were to take place, was corrupt,whether it was for the purpose of obstructing(56)
这种射击发生,是腐败的,无论是为了阻挡

the investigation.(57)
调查。

JOHN YANG: And this seems like -- we don'tknow what's going on inside the special counsel's(58)
杨约翰:这看起来像 - 我们不知道特别顾问的内部发生了什么事

investigation.(59)
调查。

You have been inside a special counsel's investigation.(60)
你已经在一位特别顾问的调查中。

It seems like a big week this week, when wehad the raids on Michael Cohen's office and(61)
这周似乎是一个大周,当时我们对迈克尔科恩的办公室和办公室进行了突袭

residence and the president's personal attorney.(62)
住所和总统的个人律师。

Does it feel to you, given your experience,that we're at an important point in this investigation?(63)
根据您的经验,您觉得我们在这次调查中处于重要位置吗?

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE: Well, now we have tapes,John, that are alleged to have been made by(64)
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE:好吧,现在我们有录音带,约翰,据说是由他们制作的

Mr. Cohen.(65)
科恩先生。

We don't know what's on them, and we understandthey have been seized.(66)
我们不知道他们是什么,我们知道他们已经被抓住了。

We have new information, as a result of theU.S. attorney's office filing a response to(67)
由于美国检察官办公室提交了答复,我们有了新的信息

Mr. Cohen's attorneys' attempt to freeze thematerial and keep it from the hands of the(68)
科恩先生的律师试图冻结材料并将其从手中拿走

U.S. attorney's office.(69)
美国律师事务所。

And there are so many parallels to Watergatenow.(70)
现在与水门事件有许多相似之处。

We have had hush money, tapes, electronicinterference with the opposition party.(71)
我们有嘘钱,磁带,电子干扰反对党。

Now we have Russia involved.(72)
现在我们有俄罗斯参与。

So, there's so much here to unpack, and thespecial counsel is doing exactly what he should(73)
所以,这里有很多东西需要解压缩,而特别顾问正在做他应该做的

be doing in maintaining silence.(74)
要保持沉默。

There have been no leaks, just as there wereno leaks in Watergate, where we had explosive(75)
没有泄漏,就像水门事件中我们有爆炸物的地方没有泄漏一样

information on the secret tapes that we obtained.(76)
关于我们获得的秘密录像带的信息。

Yet none of that leaked out, and that's justthe way Mr. Mueller should be conducting his(77)
然而,没有一件泄露出来,这就是穆勒先生应该执行他的方式

investigation.(78)
调查。

JOHN YANG: Richard Ben-Veniste, former Watergateprosecutor, thanks so much.(79)
JOHN YANG:前水门检察官Richard Ben-Veniste非常感谢。

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE: Thank you, John.(80)
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE:谢谢你,约翰。


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