Saudi crown prince threatened to harm Khashoggi in 2017, says New York Times
2019-02-08 00:00:00


AMNA NAWAZ: It's been more than four monthssince Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi(1)
AMNA NAWAZ:华盛顿邮报专栏作家Jamal Khashoggi已经四个多月了

was murdered in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul.(2)
在伊斯坦布尔的沙特领事馆被谋杀。

The U.S. intelligence community assessed thepowerful crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed(3)
美国情报界评估了沙特阿拉伯强大的王储穆罕默德

bin Salman, likely ordered the killing, whichroiled relations between Washington and Riyadh(4)
本·萨勒曼(bin Salman)可能下令杀人事件,这扼杀了华盛顿与利雅得之间的关系

and between the White House and Capitol Hill.(5)
以及白宫和国会山之间。

Here's Nick Schifrin.(6)
这是Nick Schifrin。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Last night, The New York Timesreported that, before Khashoggi was murdered,(7)
NICK SCHIFRIN:昨晚,“纽约时报”报道,在Khashoggi被谋杀之前,

Mohammed bin Salman, known as MBS, was recordedon intercepted communications saying he would(8)
被称为MBS的穆罕默德·本·萨勒曼(Mohammed bin Salman)被截获的通讯记录在案

-- quote -- "use a bullet" on Khashoggi ifthe writer didn't stop his criticism of the(9)
- 如果作家没有停止对他的批评,那就引用“Khashoggi上的一颗子弹”

Saudi government.(10)
沙特政府。

Mark Mazzetti is the paper's Washington investigativecorrespondent, and wrote the piece.(11)
Mark Mazzetti是该报的华盛顿调查记者,并写了这篇文章。

He joins me now.(12)
他现在加入了我。

Mark, thank you very much.(13)
马克,非常感谢你。

How did the intelligence community recordthis and how and when did they find it?(14)
情报界是如何记录这一点的,他们是如何以及何时找到的?

MARK MAZZETTI, The New York Times: Well, itappears to have come in the routine monitoring(15)
MARK MAZZETTI,纽约时报:嗯,它似乎已经进入常规监测

that the National Security Agency does ofa lot of foreign leaders.(16)
国家安全局做了很多外国领导人。

They record phone calls, they record e-mails,and a lot of the times the messages and the(17)
他们录制了电话,他们录制了电子邮件,而且很多时候都是电子邮件和电子邮件

communications are just stored for a laterdate, when a policy-maker wants information(18)
当政策制定者想要信息时,通信只是存储在以后的日期

about a world leader or some other more urgentrequest.(19)
关于世界领导者或其他更迫切的要求。

So the Khashoggi murder created that reason,where the NSA and other intelligence agencies(20)
因此,Khashoggi谋杀创造了这个理由,NSA和其他情报机构

are now going back on years' worth of communications,not only on MBS, but of other Saudi leaders,(21)
现在正在回顾多年来的沟通,不仅仅是在MBS,而是其他沙特领导人,

to determine their culpability in the crime.(22)
确定他们在犯罪中的罪责。

And it's my understanding that this conversationcame up and was analyzed sometime in the weeks(23)
这是我的理解,这次谈话出现了,并在几周内的某个时间进行了分析

after the killing, and was produced in a reportin the last month or so.(24)
杀戮之后,并在上个月左右的一份报告中产生。

NICK SCHIFRIN: A few of us met with Adel Al-Jubeir,the Saudi Arabian minister of state for foreign(25)
尼克·施菲林:我们中的一些人会见了沙特阿拉伯国家外交部长阿德尔·朱贝尔

affairs.(26)
事务。

We asked him about your piece.(27)
我们向他询问了你的作品。

He said -- quote -- "I can't comment on reportsbased on anonymous sources.(28)
他说 - 引用 - “我无法评论基于匿名消息来源的报道。

Many reports with anonymous sources have notpanned out."(29)
许多匿名消息来源的报道都没有发布。“

And then he kept saying: "When Oliver Northwas engaged on Iran-Contra, did Ronald Reagan(30)
然后他不停地说:“当Oliver North参与伊朗 - Contra时,罗纳德里根就是这么做的

know?(31)
知道?

These things happen.(32)
这些事情发生了。

Mistakes happen.(33)
错误发生了。

This was done outside the scope of authority."(34)
这是在权限范围之外完成的。“

What's your response to that?(35)
你对此有何回应?

MARK MAZZETTI: I thought it was a curiousanalogy to use, because, after years of investigation,(36)
MARK MAZZETTI:我认为这是一个奇怪的比喻,因为经过多年的调查,

they got pretty close to almost showing thatReagan knew, it seems.(37)
看起来他们已经非常接近几乎表明里根知道了。

But putting that aside, I mean, clearly, thestrategy from the beginning here is to protect(38)
但是,把它放在一边,我的意思是,从一开始就是保护战略

the crown prince, isolate him from this, whatJubeir said today was a mistake.(39)
皇太子将他与此隔离开来,Jubeir今天所说的是一个错误。

Clearly, it was a heinous crime.(40)
显然,这是一个令人发指的罪行。

And it has tarnished the image of Saudi Arabia.(41)
它玷污了沙特阿拉伯的形象。

And so they -- although the story of the Saudi-- the Saudi story has changed over time,(42)
所以他们 - 虽然沙特的故事 - 沙特的故事随着时间的推移而发生了变化,

it has been consistent in one fact: The crownprince knew nothing about it.(43)
它在一个事实上是一致的:皇太子对此一无所知。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Mark Mazzetti with The NewYork Times, good reporting.(44)
NICK SCHIFRIN:Mark Mazzetti与纽约时报,报道很好。

Thank you very much.(45)
非常感谢你。

MARK MAZZETTI: Thank you.(46)
MARK MAZZETTI:谢谢。

NICK SCHIFRIN: And to talk about the stateof play on Capitol Hill, I turn to our congressional(47)
NICK SCHIFRIN:谈到国会山的比赛状况,我转向我们的国会

correspondent, Lisa Desjardins.(48)
通讯员Lisa Desjardins。

Thank you very much for being here.(49)
非常感谢你来到这里。

So, there was a deadline today for the administrationto report to Congress on what it thinks happen(50)
因此,政府今天有一个截止日期,要向国会报告它的想法

to Jamal Khashoggi.(51)
致Jamal Khashoggi。

And the administration has made it clear thatit's pretty much not going to submit that(52)
政府已经明确表示,它几乎不会提交

report.(53)
报告。

And Secretary Pompeo sent a letter to theSenate Foreign Relations Committee, which(54)
庞培秘书致函参议院外交关系委员会

you just obtained, saying that the U.S. wasthe first nation to take action and designate(55)
你刚刚获得,说美国是第一个采取行动和指定的国家

17 Saudi individuals for sanctions, and thatwe have aggressively use the global Magnitsky(56)
17名沙特人受制裁,我们积极使用全球的马格尼茨基

program, under which these sanctions wereenacted.(57)
制定这些制裁的计划。

And that's about it.(58)
这就是它。

LISA DESJARDINS: Yes.(59)
LISA DESJARDINS:是的。

NICK SCHIFRIN: What's the reaction on CapitolHill?(60)
尼克·施菲林:国会山的反应是什么?

LISA DESJARDINS: Well, let's first translatewhat that letter is saying.(61)
LISA DESJARDINS:嗯,让我们先翻译那封信的内容。

That letter essentially is the report thatthe president was required to give.(62)
这封信基本上是总统必须提供的报告。

This report was triggered by the ranking andchairman of Senate Foreign Relations last(63)
这份报告是由参议院外交关系的排名和主席最后引发的

fall.(64)
秋季。

And they had 120 days to look into this ideaof the Khashoggi murder.(65)
他们有120天的时间来研究这个关于Khashoggi谋杀案的想法。

And we just now have a two-paragraph responseafter that 120 days.(66)
我们刚刚在120天之后收到了两段回复。

And the response so far is furious.(67)
迄今为止的反应非常激烈。

We have -- the first official responses fromPatrick Leahy, Democrat.(68)
我们 - 民主党人帕特里克莱希的第一次官方回应。

He was one of the ones who requested this.(69)
他是要求这一点的人之一。

He goes so far as to say, if the presidentignores basically the mandate of holding someone(70)
他甚至说,如果总统基本上忽略了控告某人的任务

responsible for this murder, "The White Housewill share the blame for attempting to cover(71)
对这起谋杀事件负责,“白宫将分担责任,试图掩盖

up the crime."(72)
犯罪。“

Now, meanwhile, we will hear from more Republicanswho also requested this report or this letter.(73)
与此同时,我们将听取更多共和党人的意见,他们也要求提交本报告或本函。

We heard from the new Senate Foreign Relationschairman, Jim Risch of Idaho.(74)
我们听到了新的参议院外交关系主席,爱达荷州的Jim Risch。

He acknowledged the letter.(75)
他承认了这封信。

He said he anticipates a more detailed briefingfrom the administration.(76)
他说他期待政府更详细的通报。

No date on that yet.(77)
还没有约会。

And also he notes: "Legislation has been introducedon this issue.(78)
他还指出:“在这个问题上引入了立法。

I expect more to come."(79)
我期待更多的到来。“

Speaking with staff and people who are aware,they are not sure what that legislation would(80)
与工作人员和知情人士交谈时,他们不确定该立法会采取什么措施

mean.(81)
意思。

But, remember, the entire Senate voted unanimouslythat the crown prince of Saudi Arabia personally(82)
但是,请记住,整个参议院一致投票赞成沙特阿拉伯王储亲自

was responsible for this murder.(83)
对这起谋杀事件负有责任。

NICK SCHIFRIN: So more to come.(84)
NICK SCHIFRIN:还有更多。

Very quickly, Lisa Desjardins, do we knowwhat is more to come?(85)
很快,丽莎Desjardins,我们知道更多的是什么?

LISA DESJARDINS: Well, I think we know somethingnext week.(86)
LISA DESJARDINS:嗯,我想我们下周会有所了解。

The House is expected to vote on a resolution,not on this murder, not on the crown prince,(87)
预计众议院将就一项决议投票,而不是对这起谋杀案,而不是对王储,

but on a related issue, Yemen.(88)
但在相关问题上,也门。

And we do expect the House to pass a resolutionrequiring the withdrawal of U.S. forces from(89)
我们确实希望众议院通过一项决议,要求撤出美军

Yemen.(90)
也门。

This is something the Senate passed last year.(91)
这是参议院去年通过的。

So this is something that would be action,and not just sort of a symbolic passing back(92)
所以这就是行动,而不仅仅是一种象征性的回传

and forth of letters.(93)
字母。

It's something to watch.(94)
这是值得关注的。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Lisa Desjardins, thank youvery much.(95)
NICK SCHIFRIN:Lisa Desjardins,非常感谢你。

LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.(96)
LISA DESJARDINS:不客气。


All News Articles fetched from PBS RSS Feeds and copyrighted by pbs.org