Lewandowski frustrates Democrats with short responses in House Judiciary Committee hearing
2019-09-17 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: The Mueller report is backin the headlines today.(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:穆勒报告今天重新成为头条新闻。

The first witness mentioned in the specialcounsel's investigation appeared before the(2)
特别律师调查中提到的第一位证人出现在此前

U.S. House Judiciary Committee to answer questionson obstruction of justice.(3)
美国众议院司法委员会回答有关妨碍司法的问题。

Our Lisa Desjardins was there, and she beginswith this report.(4)
我们的Lisa Desjardins在那里,她从这份报告开始。

LISA DESJARDINS: Democrats have been waitingfor this opportunity.(5)
LISA DESJARDINS:民主党人一直在等待这个机会。

REP.(6)
REP。

JERROLD NADLER (D-NY): The Committee on theJudiciary will come to order.(7)
杰勒德·纳德勒(D-NY):司法委员会将接到命令。

LISA DESJARDINS: An open hearing with CoreyLewandowski, a former Trump campaign manager(8)
LISA DESJARDINS:前特朗普竞选经理Corey Lewandowski的公开听证会

who remained in touch with the president whenhe was in office.(9)
他在任时与总统保持联系。

He also saw the hearing as an opportunityto defend the president.(10)
他还认为听证会是捍卫总统的机会。

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, Former Trump Campaign Manager:The investigation was populated by many Trump(11)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI,前特朗普竞选经理:调查由许多特朗普组成

haters, who had their own agenda, to takedown a duly elected president of the United(12)
仇恨者,他们有自己的议程,取消正式当选的美国总统

States.(13)
状态。

As for actual collusion or conspiracy, therewas none.(14)
至于实际的勾结或阴谋,没有。

LISA DESJARDINS: Lewandowski ran Mr. Trump'spresidential campaign through the early 2016(15)
LISA DESJARDINS:Lewandowski在2016年初开始执行特朗普先生的总统竞选活动

primaries, getting radiant praise from hisboss after their crushing victory in New Hampshire.(16)
初选,在新罕布什尔州取得胜利后,得到了老板的热烈赞扬。

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:He was the first one that talked about us(17)
DONALD TRUMP,美国总统:他是第一个谈论我们的人

possibly winning the whole big ball game,and he's tough and he's smart.(18)
可能赢得整个大型球赛,而且他很强硬,他很聪明。

LISA DESJARDINS: Problems with delegate mathand other issues pushed Lewandowski out that(19)
LISA DESJARDINS:代表数学和其他问题的问题推动了Lewandowski

summer.(20)
夏天。

He didn't work in the Trump White House.(21)
他没有在特朗普白宫工作。

But Lewandowski defended the president ontelevision and stayed in Mr. Trump's orbit.(22)
但是,莱万多夫斯基在电视上为总统辩护并留在特朗普先生的轨道上。

COREY LEWANDOWSKI: Which is talking to thepresident on a fairly regular basis.(23)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI:这是在定期与总统交谈。

LISA DESJARDINS: Which is one reason he landedin the Mueller report.(24)
LISA DESJARDINS:这是他登陆Mueller报告的原因之一。

Democrats have been keenly interested in asection in volume two dealing with whether(25)
民主党人对第二卷中关于是否的一节非常感兴趣

the president obstructed justice.(26)
总统阻挠了正义。

The report lays out how, in May of 2017, Muellerbegan his investigation.(27)
该报告列出了2017年5月穆勒开始调查的情况。

Just one month later, the report states, thepresident called Lewandowski to the White(28)
就在一个月之后,报道称,总统称莱万多夫斯基为白人

House for a one-on-one meeting, dictatinga message for him to take to then-Attorney(29)
众议院进行一对一的会议,指示他接受当时律师的信息

General Jeff Sessions.(30)
杰夫塞申斯将军。

It directed Sessions to give a speech announcingthe president was being mistreated, and Mueller(31)
它指示Sessions发表讲话,宣布总统受到虐待,而Mueller

would have to limit his investigation to futurecampaigns, not Trump or his team.(32)
将不得不限制他对未来竞选的调查,而不是特朗普或他的团队。

For this appearance, the White House toldthe Judiciary Committee Lewandowski could(33)
对于这次露面,白宫告诉司法委员会Lewandowski可以

speak only to material in the Mueller report,and no other interactions with President or(34)
只谈穆勒报告中的材料,没有与总统或其他任何互动

candidate Trump.(35)
候选人特朗普。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And Lisa joins me now.(36)
JUDY WOODRUFF:Lisa现在加入我。

So, Lisa, what were the Democrats trying,hoping to show here about the Mueller report?(37)
所以,丽莎,民主党人在尝试什么,希望在这里展示穆勒报告?

LISA DESJARDINS: About the Mueller reportspecifically, Judy, Democrats were focused(38)
LISA DESJARDINS:特别关于Mueller的报告,Judy,民主党人都很专注

on one portion of volume two that we justmentioned.(39)
在我们刚才提到的第二卷的一部分。

They wanted to get Corey Lewandowski to talkabout that moment that he testified between(40)
他们想让科里·莱万多夫斯基谈谈他作证的那一刻

himself and President Trump where PresidentTrump asked him to direct the attorney general(41)
特朗普总统要求他指导司法部长,特朗普总统

to essentially make sure he couldn't be investigated,to make sure that President Trump himself(42)
基本上确保他不能被调查,以确保特朗普总统本人

couldn't be investigated.(43)
无法调查。

But, Judy, I'm not sure that Democrats gotthe sounds that they wanted out of Corey Lewandowski.(44)
但是,朱迪,我不确定民主党人是否从科里·莱万多夫斯基那里得到了他们想要的声音。

He was very dismissive of the Mueller reportin general.(45)
他总体上对穆勒报告非常不屑一顾。

In fact, he said he never read it.(46)
事实上,他说他从未读过它。

And for every question he asked, where specificallyin the report is that, he soaked up time doing(47)
对于他提出的每一个问题,在报告的具体内容中,他都把时间吸收了

that.(48)
那。

And he repeatedly seemed -- either refusedto answer questions or took a long time answering(49)
他似乎一再表示 - 要么拒绝回答问题,要么花了很长时间回答

them.(50)
他们。

That raised a lot of frustration for Democrats.(51)
这给民主党人带来了很多挫败感。

They didn't really bring out any informationand very little sound from Mr. Lewandowski(52)
他们并没有真正地从Lewandowski先生那里得到任何信息和声音

on that.(53)
在那。

In fact, it was a circus at the beginningof this hearing.(54)
事实上,这是听证会开始时的马戏团。

Later, it calmed down.(55)
后来,它平静下来。

But here are a few examples of what I'm talkingabout, Rhode Island Representative David Cicilline,(56)
但是这里有几个我正在谈论的例子,罗德岛代表David Cicilline,

also Representative Pramila Jayapal.(57)
还有代表Pramila Jayapal。

Here, Cicilline is asking why he didn't followthrough on the president's order for him to(58)
在这里,Cicilline问他为什么没有遵守总统对他的命令

talk to the attorney general.(59)
与司法部长交谈。

REP.(60)
REP。

DAVID CICILLINE (D-RI): Just to be clear,although you were not working for the president(61)
DAVID CICILLINE(D-RI):虽然你没有为总统工作,但要明确一点

in any capacity, you wanted to give the presidentthe impression that you were going to follow(62)
无论如何,你想给总统一个你要遵循的印象

his orders, correct?(63)
他的命令,对吗?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI: No.(64)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI:没有。

REP.(65)
REP。

DAVID CICILLINE: Well, you said, I'm goingto take care of it.(66)
DAVID CICILLINE:嗯,你说,我要照顾它。

COREY LEWANDOWSKI: Is that referenced in thereport?(67)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI:报告中引用了这个吗?

REP.(68)
REP。

DAVID CICILLINE: Did you tell the presidentyou were going to deliver the message?(69)
DAVID CICILLINE:你有没有告诉总统你要传递信息?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI: I can't comment on privateconversations.(70)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI:我无法对私人谈话发表评论。

The president has reserved executive privilege.(71)
总统保留了行政特权。

(CROSSTALK)
REP.(72)
REP。

DAVID CICILLINE: I'm sorry?(73)
DAVID CICILLINE:对不起?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI: I can read you the exactstatement again, if you would like me to.(74)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI:如果你愿意的话,我可以再次给你读到确切的陈述。

As I said, the White House has directed methat I not disclose the substance of any discussions(75)
正如我所说,白宫指示我,我没有透露任何讨论的实质内容

with the president or his advisers to protectexecutive privilege confidentiality.(76)
与总统或他的顾问保护行政特权的机密性。

(CROSSTALK)
REP.(77)
REP。

DAVID CICILLINE: Reclaiming my time.(78)
DAVID CICILLINE:回收我的时间。

You're not going to stonewall me and my questioning.(79)
你不会打扰我和我的问题。

COREY LEWANDOWSKI: Would you like me to answeryour question?(80)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI:您希望我回答您的问题吗?

REP.(81)
REP。

PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): You were dictatedthose notes by the president, correct?(82)
PRAMILA JAYAPAL(D-WA):你是由总统口述的那些笔记,对吗?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI: I believe that's in thereport.(83)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI:我相信报告中的内容。

REP.(84)
REP。

PRAMILA JAYAPAL: And you told the specialcounsel the president has dictated a message(85)
PRAMILA JAYAPAL:你告诉特别顾问,总统已经发出了一个信息

to you, and you said, write this down.(86)
给你,你说,写下来。

This is volume two, page 91.(87)
这是第二卷,第91页。

And you gave the notes to the special counsel.(88)
你把这些笔记给了特别律师。

Correct?(89)
正确?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI: I can't speak to the waythe special counsel conducted their investigation.(90)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI:我不能谈论特别律师进行调查的方式。

(CROSSTALK)
REP.(91)
REP。

PRAMILA JAYAPAL: Did you give the notes tothe special counsel?(92)
PRAMILA JAYAPAL:你有没有给特别顾问说明?

This is not about how the special counselconducted its investigation.(93)
这不是特别顾问如何进行调查。

It's about whether you gave the notes to thespecial counsel.(94)
这是关于你是否给特别律师发了笔记。

COREY LEWANDOWSKI: That's a question for specialcounsel Mueller.(95)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI:这是穆勒特别顾问的问题。

REP.(96)
REP。

PRAMILA JAYAPAL: Those were your notes, Mr.Lewandowski.(97)
PRAMILA JAYAPAL:那是你的笔记,Lewandowski先生。

They were in your safe.(98)
他们在你的保险箱里。

They were dictated to you and written downby you.(99)
他们是由你决定并由你写下来的。

Did you give them to the special counsel?(100)
你有没有把它们交给特别顾问?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI: I comply with all legaland lawful requests of the special counsel.(101)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI:我遵守特别法律顾问的所有法律和法律要求。

REP.(102)
REP。

PRAMILA JAYAPAL: Well, obviously, you areonce again obstructing our investigation by(103)
PRAMILA JAYAPAL:嗯,显然,你再一次阻碍我们的调查

refusing to answer questions that...(104)
拒绝回答......的问题

COREY LEWANDOWSKI: I have just answered yourquestion.(105)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI:我刚刚回答了你的问题。

I said I comply with all requests by the specialcounsel.(106)
我说我遵守特别律师的所有要求。

LISA DESJARDINS: This was very typical ofthe now five hours and running of this hearing(107)
LISA DESJARDINS:这是非常典型的现在五小时和听证会的运行

today, Judy.(108)
今天,朱迪。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Lisa, your reporting is,though, that the Democrats had another goal(109)
JUDY WOODRUFF:而且,丽莎,你的报道是,民主党有另一个目标

in all of this, one that maybe they're happierabout the result from?(110)
在所有这一切中,有人可能会对结果感到高兴吗?

LISA DESJARDINS: I think that's right.(111)
LISA DESJARDINS:我认为这是对的。

A more pragmatic goal for Democrats was toshow that Corey Lewandowski and, more importantly(112)
民主党人更实际的目标是展示科里·莱万多夫斯基,更重要的是

to them, President Trump and his White Houseare obstructing justice in this probe itself(113)
对他们来说,特朗普总统和他的白宫在这一调查中阻碍了正义

by preventing him from answering questions,by saying that two top aides, Rick Dearborn(114)
通过说两位高级助手里克迪尔伯恩,阻止他回答问题

and Rob Porter, who were also subpoenaed totestify today, were not able to because the(115)
今天也被传唤出庭作证的罗伯·波特(Rob Porter)因为这个原因而未能出庭作证

White House blocked them from doing so.(116)
白宫阻止他们这样做。

All of that, the Democrats are arguing, showsa pattern of obstruction of justice, obstruction(117)
所有这一切,民主党人都在争论,显示出妨碍司法,阻挠的模式

of Congress that they think may be impeachableitself later on or at least give them an argument(118)
他们认为国会可能会在以后发布或至少给他们一个论点

to the courts.(119)
到法院。

Here is House Judiciary Committee ChairmanJerry Nadler talking about this as he was(120)
这是众议院司法委员会主席杰里纳德勒谈论这个问题

in a back-and-forth with Mr. Lewandowski.(121)
和Lewandowski先生一起来回走动。

REP.(122)
REP。

JERROLD NADLER: When you refuse to answerthese questions, you are obstructing the work(123)
杰勒德纳德勒:当你拒绝回答这些问题时,你就是在阻碍这项工作

of our committee.(124)
我们的委员会。

You are also proving our point to the Americanpeople to see.(125)
你也证明了我们对美国人民的看法。

The president is intent on obstructing ourlegitimate oversight.(126)
总统打算阻挠我们的合法监督。

You are aiding him in that obstruction.(127)
你帮助他阻止他。

And I will remind you that Article 3 of theimpeachment against President Nixon was based(128)
我将提醒你,对尼克松总统的弹劾第3条的依据

on obstruction of Congress.(129)
阻挠国会。

You are instructed to answer the question.(130)
你被指示回答这个问题。

LISA DESJARDINS: And that Article 3, Judy,that Nadler was talking about specifically(131)
LISA DESJARDINS:第3条,Judy,Nadler正在谈论的具体问题

was about the Nixon White House refusing totestify and answer to subpoenas before the(132)
是关于尼克松白宫拒绝作证并回答传票之前

House Judiciary Committee.(133)
众议院司法委员会。

So that is a very important layer of the casethat House Democrats are trying to make.(134)
所以这是众议院民主党人正在努力做的一个非常重要的层面。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, meantime, Lisa, tell uswhat Republicans are saying about all this.(135)
JUDY WOODRUFF:同时,Lisa,告诉我们共和党人对这一切的看法。

LISA DESJARDINS: Right.(136)
LISA DESJARDINS:对。

Republicans are building a separate case.(137)
共和党人正在建立一个单独的案件。

They say they're trying to show that theythink House Democrats are trying to replay(138)
他们说他们试图表明他们认为众议院民主党人正试图重播

the 2016 election.(139)
2016年大选。

They made a case repeatedly today that Democratsare moving out of emotion, out of a tremendous(140)
他们今天反复提出一个案例,即民主党人正在摆脱一种巨大的情绪

bias against this president.(141)
对这位总统的偏见。

They do not see this -- or they say they don'tsee it as a fact-finding investigation.(142)
他们没有看到这一点 - 或者他们说他们不认为这是一项事实调查。

And that certainly played with how you couldsee Mr. Lewandowski.(143)
这肯定与你如何看待Lewandowski先生有关。

He walked into the hearing room, Judy.(144)
他走进听证室,朱迪。

I noticed, and I asked him, his pin was anAmerican flag with the presidential seal on(145)
我注意到了,我问他,他的别针是美国国旗,总统印章

it.(146)
它。

He was there making a statement of loyaltyto the president, and he basically told Democrats(147)
他在那里发表了对总统忠诚的声明,他基本上告诉了民主党人

that he felt this investigation was theirattempt to overturn the last election.(148)
他觉得这次调查是他们企图推翻上次大选。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, it's remarkable, anotherremarkable hearing.(149)
JUDY WOODRUFF:嗯,这是非凡的,另一个非凡的听证会。

And you're right.(150)
而你是对的。

It takes us right back to the Mueller report.(151)
它让我们回到穆勒的报告。

Lisa Desjardins, thank you.(152)
Lisa Desjardins,谢谢。


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