Supreme Court weighs whether LGBTQ workers are protected from discrimination
2019-10-08 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: This is day two of the UnitedStates Supreme Court's new term, and already(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:这是美国最高法院新任期的第二天,已经

the justices are grappling with one of thehighest-stakes questions on its docket.(2)
大法官们正在努力解决案卷上最高赌注的问题之一。

It is about Title VII of the 1964 Civil RightsAct, which bars employers from discriminating(3)
它与1964年《民权法案》第七章有关,该条禁止雇主歧视

against employees on the basis of sex.(4)
反对基于性别的员工。

But does Title VII also protect against discriminationon the basis of sexual orientation or gender(5)
但是标题VII是否也防止基于性取向或性别的歧视

identity?(6)
身份?

William Brangham starts there.(7)
威廉·布兰厄姆(William Brangham)从这里开始。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The demonstrations outsidethe Supreme Court today reflect just how high-stakes(8)
威廉·布朗汉姆(WILLIAM BRANGHAM):今天最高法院外面的示威反映了高赌注

these cases are.(9)
这些都是。

Several were argued this morning.(10)
今天早上有几个争论。

They're the most significant LGBTQ rightscases since 2015, when the court legalized(11)
这是自2015年法院合法化以来最重要的LGBTQ权利案件

same-sex marriage nationwide.(12)
全国同性婚姻。

Gerald Bostock is a welfare case worker fromGeorgia.(13)
Gerald Bostock是佐治亚州的一名福利案件工作者。

He initiated one of the lawsuits that madeit to the court today.(14)
他提起了今天诉诸法院的其中一项诉讼。

He said he was fired because he's gay.(15)
他说他被开除是因为他是同性恋。

GERALD BOSTOCK, Plaintiff: We're talking aboutmillions and millions of people who go to(16)
GERALD BOSTOCK,原告:我们是在谈论数以百万计的人去

work every day fearful for being fired forwho they are, how they identify, and who they(17)
每天工作都会担心被解雇,身份,身份以及身份

love.(18)
爱。

And that's wrong.(19)
那是错误的。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Another of the lawsuitswas initiated by Aimee Stephens.(20)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:另一起诉讼是由Aimee Stephens发起的。

She is transgender and said she was firedfrom a Michigan funeral home after beginning(21)
她是变性人,并说她开始逃离密歇根州的fun仪馆

her transition.(22)
她的过渡。

But a lawyer representing the funeral homesays Title VII doesn't apply here.(23)
但是代表representing仪馆的律师说,第七章不适用于这里。

JOHN BURSCH, Attorney: Americans should beable to rely on what the law says.(24)
律师约翰·伯斯(JOHN BURSCH):美国人应该能够依赖法律规定。

First, it was unelected government officials.(25)
首先,是未经选举的政府官员。

Now it is the ACLU that seeks to redefinesex in federal law, a change that Congress(26)
现在是美国公民自由联盟(ACLU)试图在联邦法律中重新定义性别,这是国会的一项改变

has repeatedly rejected.(27)
一再拒绝。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Inside the courtroom today,as always, was Marcia Coyle of "The National(28)
威廉·布朗汉姆:今天,在法庭上,一如既往地是《国民》杂志的玛西娅·科伊尔

Law Journal," and she joins me now.(29)
法律杂志”,她现在加入了我。

Marcia, welcome back, as always.(30)
马西娅,一如既往地欢迎您回来。

MARCIA COYLE, "The National Law Journal":Thank you.(31)
MARCIA COYLE,《国家法律杂志》:谢谢。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The argument today is whetherTitle VII, which bans job discrimination on(32)
威廉·布朗汉姆:今天的争论是标题VII是否禁止在

the basis of sex, could also include protectingsexual orientation, right?(33)
性的基础,还可以包括保护性取向,对吧?

Was that the argument today?(34)
是今天的争论吗?

MARCIA COYLE: That's right, William.(35)
MARCIA COYLE:是的,William。

Does that language, sex, encompass discriminationon the basis of sexual orientation and gender(36)
该语言(性别)是否包含基于性取向和性别的歧视

identity?(37)
身份?

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And as we heard from oneof the plaintiffs, who basically argued, I'm(38)
威廉·布朗汉姆(WILLIAM BRANGHAM):正如我们从一位原告中所听到的,他们基本上认为,我是

was fired because I'm gay, and thus, underTitle VII, I should be protected.(39)
因我是同性恋而被解雇,因此,根据第七章的规定,我应该受到保护。

MARCIA COYLE: Right.(40)
MARCIA COYLE:好的。

And the other plaintiff you heard from, AimeeStephens, because she was -- she claimed she(41)
您听到的另一个原告艾米·史蒂芬斯(Aimee Stephens)是因为她-

was fired because of her gender identity,that she had transitioned from male to female.(42)
因其性别认同而被解雇,因为她已从男性过渡到女性。

And today, William, there were two hours ofarguments.(43)
今天,威廉,有两个小时的争论。

The court had consolidated two cases involvingsexual orientation for one hour, and then(44)
法院将涉及性取向的两个案件合并了一个小时,然后

the case on gender identity for a second hour.(45)
有关性别认同的案件又持续了两个小时。

And the arguments were fascinating, fast,quick, path-breaking.(46)
争论令人着迷,快速,迅速,开创性的。

We heard for the first time words like transgender,cisgender, even...(47)
我们第一次听到了跨性别,顺性别,甚至...

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Is that right?(48)
威廉·布朗汉姆:是吗?

That's the first time those have been utteredin the Supreme Court?(49)
那是那些第一次在最高法院被说出来吗?

MARCIA COYLE: First time I have ever heardthem.(50)
MARCIA COYLE:我第一次听过。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Interesting.(51)
威廉·布朗汉姆:有趣。

MARCIA COYLE: And I have been covering thecourt a long time.(52)
MARCIA COYLE:我很久以来一直在法庭上报道。

The LGBTQ community is arguing that, becauseof sex, that this is a plain statutory interpretation(53)
LGBTQ社区争辩说,由于性别,这是一种明确的法定解释

case, that the text of Title VII, becauseof sex, applies.(54)
在这种情况下,适用第七章的文本是因为性别。

And the best way to explain it was probablyPam Karlan, who argued for those plaintiffs(55)
最好的解释方式可能是帕姆·卡兰(Pam Karlan),他为原告辩护

today on sexual orientation, in which shesaid, if an employer fires a male employer(56)
今天是关于性取向的,她说如果雇主解雇男性雇主

-- employee because he dates men, but doesn'tfire a female employee who dates men, then(57)
-雇员,因为他与男人约会,但不解雇与男人约会的女雇员,那么

that employer has discriminated against theman because the employer's treating that man(58)
该雇主歧视该男子,因为该雇主对待该男子

worse than the female employee.(59)
比女员工差

And it's because of sex, because the firingis based on the employee, the male employee's(60)
这是因为性别,因为解雇是基于员工,男性员工的

failure to conform to the employer's expectationof the male sex's behavior.(61)
不符合雇主对男性行为的期望。

And it's very similar in terms of the genderidentity case, too.(62)
就性别认同案例而言,这也非常相似。

Aimee Stephens, they say, was fired becauseof sex.(63)
他们说,艾米·斯蒂芬斯(Aimee Stephens)因性关系而被解雇。

She was fired because of her biological sexat birth.(64)
由于出生时的性别,她被解雇了。

If she had had a different sex, female, shewouldn't have been treated -- or she would(65)
如果她的性别不同,女性,就不会得到治疗-否则她会

have been treated differently.(66)
被不同地对待。

She wouldn't have been fired.(67)
她不会被解雇的。

So -- and, also, in her case, there's an additionalelement.(68)
所以-而且,在她的情况下,还有一个附加要素。

She claims she was fired because she didn'tconform to the funeral home owner's expectations(69)
她声称自己被解雇是因为她不符合the仪馆所有者的期望

of how men and women should look, act, andbehave.(70)
男人和女人应该如何看待,行动和举止。

And that's illegal stereotyping under TitleVII.(71)
这就是标题VII下的非法陈规定型观念。

So those are the arguments on one side.(72)
因此,这些是一方面的论点。

The Trump administration and the employerlawyers are saying, no, the text of Title(73)
特朗普政府和雇主律师说,不,标题文字

VII supports us, too.(74)
VII也支持我们。

In 1964, when Congress enacted the law, sexwas biological, male and female.(75)
1964年,国会通过了这项法律,性别是男性和女性的生物学特征。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And only those two.(76)
威廉·布朗汉姆:只有那两个。

MARCIA COYLE: Absolutely.(77)
MARCIA COYLE:好的。

Sexual orientation and gender identity, theysay, are independent, distinct traits or characteristics;(78)
他们说,性取向和性别认同是独立的,鲜明的特征或特征。

they're not covered by the language of TitleVII.(79)
标题VII的语言未涵盖它们。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And how did the justicesseem to respond to this idea of sort of broadening(80)
威廉·布朗汉姆(WILLIAM BRANGHAM):法官们似乎如何回应这种扩大思想

the definition of Title VII?(81)
第七章的定义?

MARCIA COYLE: Well, I think there were threesort of considerations, first on the meaning(82)
MARCIA COYLE:嗯,我认为应该考虑三种因素,首先是含义

of the language, the text.(83)
语言,文字。

You had Justice Gorsuch, for example.(84)
例如,您有戈索奇大法官。

He said he thought the textual evidence herewas very, very close, but he didn't say close(85)
他说他认为这里的文字证据非常非常接近,但他没有说接近

to what.(86)
什么。

So we're not quite sure where he is, whereasJustice Kagan said she thought it was quite(87)
所以我们不太确定他在哪里,而卡根法官说她认为那很

clear and that Title VII is very simple.(88)
很清楚,标题VII非常简单。

It says because of sex, and if you have beendiscriminated for your sex, then Title VII(89)
它说是因为性别,如果您因性别而受到歧视,那么标题VII

is there to protect you against that discrimination.(90)
在那里保护您免受歧视。

The second concern seemed to be the role ofthe court itself.(91)
第二个问题似乎是法院本身的作用。

Justice Alito said to the lawyers for theLGBTQ plaintiffs, if we rule for you, some(92)
Alito大法官对LGBTQ原告的律师说,如果我们为您裁决,

people are going to say, this is a big policyissue.(93)
人们会说,这是一个大政策问题。

This is something Congress should be dealingwith.(94)
这是国会应该处理的事情。

Congress has considered or has failed to considerthis, despite requests over a number of years.(95)
尽管已经提出了许多要求,但国会已经考虑或没有考虑到这一点。

If we rule, we're acting like a legislature.(96)
如果我们统治,我们的行为就像立法机关一样。

But then you had Justice Sotomayor sayingat a later point, sort of in response to that,(97)
但是随后您让索托马约尔大法官在稍后的时候说,对此做出了回应,

at what point does a court step in to stopinvidious discrimination?(98)
法院在什么时候介入制止歧视?

And, finally, I think, the court was concernedabout what might be the impact if they do(99)
最后,我认为,法院担心如果他们这样做会产生什么影响

rule for the LGBTQ community.(100)
LGBTQ社区的规则。

There were a lot of hypotheticals about, well,what's going to happen to sex-segregated bathrooms,(101)
关于性别隔离洗手间将会发生什么的假设很多,

sex-segregated athletic teams, dress codes?(102)
性别分隔的运动队,着装要求?

And the lawyers for the plaintiffs here, thevictims here, seemed to be telling the justices,(103)
这里原告的律师,这里的受害者,似乎是在告诉法官,

look, that's not in these cases right now.(104)
看起来,现在不是这种情况。

We're talking about the workplace, Title VII.(105)
我们正在谈论的是工作场所VII。

Those cases may come to you later, no matterhow you rule, but, right now, we're talking(106)
无论您如何裁决,这些情况可能稍后都会出现,但是,现在,我们正在谈论

about straight statutory interpretation.(107)
关于直接的法定解释。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And depending on how thejustices rule on this, I mean, this could(108)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:根据大法官对此的裁决,这可能

impact a huge number of employees across thecountry.(109)
影响全国各地的大量员工。

MARCIA COYLE: This is incredibly importantto these workers.(110)
MARCIA COYLE:这对这些工人非常重要。

I think fewer than half of the states havein their own laws workplace protections for(111)
我认为,只有不到一半的州在自己的法律中对工作场所的

LGBTQ workers.(112)
LGBTQ工人。

And so that leaves an enormous -- I thinkalmost eight million employees without protection(113)
这样就留下了巨大的数字-我认为将近800万名员工没有受到保护

from workplace discrimination.(114)
不受工作场所歧视。

So, yes, the stakes are huge.(115)
因此,是的,赌注很大。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So this is obviously anenormous case.(116)
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:显然这是一个巨大的案例。

We know there is a huge term, with guns andimmigration and abortion.(117)
我们知道,枪支,移民和堕胎是一个很大的名词。

So I know we will be seeing a lot more ofyou in the future.(118)
因此,我知道我们将来会与您见面。

Marcia Coyle, as always, thank you.(119)
玛西娅·科伊尔(Marcia Coyle)和往常一样,谢谢。

MARCIA COYLE: Always a pleasure.(120)
MARCIA COYLE:总是很高兴。


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