What 2 senators took away from intelligence briefing on Iran
2019-05-21 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: Tensions with Iran are on therise.(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:与伊朗的紧张关系正在上升。

The Trump administration claims Tehran isplanning attacks on U.S. forces and on allies(2)
特朗普政府声称德黑兰计划袭击美国军队和盟国

in the Middle East.(3)
在中东。

But Mr. Trump also says he doesn't want warwith Iran.(4)
但特朗普先生也表示他不想与伊朗开战。

Nick Schifrin reports on how, today, the Senatewas briefed on the intelligence that is underlying(5)
尼克·希弗林(Nick Schifrin)报道了今天如何向参议院简要介绍了潜在的情报

an increase in the American military presencein the region.(6)
美国在该地区的军事存在增加。

NICK SCHIFRIN: This afternoon, top nationalsecurity officers arrived on Capitol Hill(7)
尼克·施菲林:今天下午,国家安全高级官员抵达国会山

to brief the House and Senate.(8)
向众议院和参议院作简报。

And afterward, acting Secretary of DefensePatrick Shanahan said the U.S. military had(9)
代理国防部长帕特里克·沙纳汉说,美国军方已经说过

been responding to Iranian actions.(10)
一直在回应伊朗的行动。

PATRICK SHANAHAN, Acting U.S. Defense Secretary:We received credible intelligence about threats(11)
PATRICK SHANAHAN,代理美国国防部长:我们收到了有关威胁的可靠情报

to our interests in the Middle East and toAmerican forces.(12)
我们对中东和美国军队的兴趣。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Today's briefing comes at theend of a dramatic few weeks.(13)
NICK SCHIFRIN:今天的简报会在戏剧性的几周结束时发布。

On May the 5th, after the administration saidit received intelligence of a -- quote -- "imminent(14)
5月5日,在政府表示收到了有关报价的情报之后 - “迫在眉睫

attack" on U.S. forces and allies, NationalSecurity Adviser John Bolton released a statement(15)
美国国家安全顾问约翰博尔顿发表声明称,对美国军队和盟国进行攻击

promising any Iranian attack would be metwith -- quote -- "unrelenting force."(16)
承诺任何伊朗的进攻都会遭到 - 引用 - “不屈不挠的力量”。

He accelerated the deployment of an aircraftcarrier group and bombers to the Middle East.(17)
他加快了向中东部署航空母舰和轰炸机的步伐。

GEN.(18)
GEN。

JOSEPH DUNFORD, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman:We sent some messages to make sure that it(19)
参谋长联席会议主席JOSEPH DUNFORD主席:我们发了一些信息以确保这一点

was clear to Iran that we recognized the threatand we were postured to respond to the threat.(20)
伊朗很清楚我们已经认识到这种威胁,并且我们被定为应对威胁。

NICK SCHIFRIN: On May the 8th, Iran vowedto exceed 2015 nuclear deal caps on stockpiles(21)
尼克·施菲林:5月8日,伊朗发誓要超过2015年的核销售上限

and threatened to exceed caps on uranium enrichment.(22)
并威胁要超过铀浓缩上限。

MAJID TAKHT-RAVANCHI, Iranian Ambassador tothe United Nations: We have not received the(23)
伊朗驻联合国大使MAJID TAKHT-RAVANCHI:我们还没有收到

economic benefit that we were promised toreceive based on the nuclear deal.(24)
我们承诺在核协议的基础上获得的经济利益。

And then we were left with no other option.(25)
然后我们别无选择。

NICK SCHIFRIN: On May 13, four oil tankerswere attacked, and U.S. officials told the(26)
NICK SCHIFRIN:5月13日,四艘油轮遭到袭击,美国官员告诉记者

"NewsHour" they believed the attacks weredirected by Iran.(27)
“新闻时计”他们认为袭击事件是伊朗指挥的。

Alarmed allies urged the U.S. to avoid escalation.(28)
震惊的盟友敦促美国避免升级。

FEDERICA MOGHERINI, Foreign Policy Chief,European Union: The most responsible attitude(29)
欧盟外交政策负责人FEDERICA MOGHERINI:最负责任的态度

to take is, and we believe should be, thatof maximum restraint(30)
我们认为应该是最大限度的克制

.(31)

NICK SCHIFRIN: On May 15, the U.S. withdrewnon-emergency personnel from Iraq, citing(32)
尼克·施菲林:5月15日,美国从伊拉克撤回非紧急救援人员

a threat from Iran.(33)
来自伊朗的威胁。

But, by then, President Trump tried to defusetensions.(34)
但是,到那时,特朗普总统试图化解紧张局势。

He told acting Shanahan he didn't want war.(35)
他告诉代理Shanahan他不想要战争。

And, on May 16, he said this:(36)
并且,在5月16日,他说:

QUESTION: Mr. President, are we going to warwith Iran?(37)
问题:总统先生,我们要和伊朗开战吗?

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:Hope not.(38)
DONALD TRUMP,美国总统:希望不是。

NICK SCHIFRIN: But, on May 19, a rocket attacklanded less than a mile from the U.S. Embassy(39)
NICK SCHIFRIN:但是,5月19日,一次火箭袭击距离美国大使馆不到一英里

in Baghdad.(40)
在巴格达。

Iranian-backed militia commanders later disavowedthe attack.(41)
伊朗支持的民兵指挥官后来否认了这次袭击事件。

And, today, Shanahan suggested that militarydeployments had prevented Iranian attacks.(42)
而且,今天,Shanahan表示,军事部署阻止了伊朗的袭击。

We now hear from two senators who were attoday's briefing.(43)
我们现在听取两位参加今天发布会的参议员的发言。

We begin with New Jersey Democrat Robert Menendez,ranking member on the Senate Foreign Relations(44)
我们从新泽西民主党人罗伯特梅南德斯开始,他是参议院外交关系的排名成员

Committee.(45)
委员会。

Senator Menendez, welcome back to the "NewsHour."(46)
参议员梅嫩德斯,欢迎回到“新闻时报”。

Were you reassured by the intelligence thatwas presented today and the U.S. actions in(47)
如果你对今天提出的情报和美国的行动感到放心

response to that intelligence over the lastcouple weeks?(48)
过去几周回应这种情报?

SEN.(49)
SEN。

ROBERT MENENDEZ (D-NJ): Well, I'm not reassuredthat we don't have an environment in which(50)
ROBERT MENENDEZ(D-NJ):嗯,我不确定我们没有一个环境

a miscalculation on either side can take place,a miscalculation that then can accelerate(51)
可能会发生任何一方的错误估计,然后可能会加速错误计算

into a more major conflict.(52)
陷入更大的冲突。

And so that is deeply concerning to me andstill remains concerning, especially after(53)
所以这对我很深切,并且仍然存在,特别是在此之后

everything I heard.(54)
我听到的一切。

And the second part that I am also very concernedabout is that I do not get a sense from the(55)
而我非常关心的第二部分是我从中得不到任何意义

administration that they have a strategy totake their maximum pressure campaign and turn(56)
政府,他们有一个战略,以采取他们的最大压力运动和转向

it into a diplomatic opportunity to resolveIran's nuclear desires at a negotiating table.(57)
它成为一个在谈判桌上解决伊朗核问题的外交机会。

The combination of those two things leavesme very unsettled after the hearing.(58)
这两件事的结合使我在听证会后非常不安。

NICK SCHIFRIN: So, I want to ask you aboutthe strategy in a second, but about the intelligence(59)
NICK SCHIFRIN:所以,我想问一下你的策略,但是关于智能

itself, just a couple of words from some ofyour Republican colleagues.(60)
本身,只是你的一些共和党同事的几句话。

Senator Graham said that the intelligencerevealed the ayatollah himself directed some(61)
参议员格雷厄姆说,情报显示阿亚图拉本人指示了一些

of the attacks that we have seen in the MiddleEast in the last few days.(62)
我们在过去几天在中东发生的袭击事件。

And Mike McCaul, ranking member House ForeignAffairs Committee, Republican, said that Iran(63)
共和党众议院外交事务委员会成员Mike McCaul表示,伊朗

carried out and launched several attacks.(64)
进行并发动了几次袭击。

So, is that what the intelligence shows?(65)
那么,情报显示的是什么?

SEN.(66)
SEN。

ROBERT MENENDEZ: Well, first of all, I don'tknow how one can comment on the intelligence(67)
ROBERT MENENDEZ:首先,我不知道如何评论情报

itself, because it's classified.(68)
本身,因为它是分类的。

But I will say this, that the environmenthas changed as a result of the maximum pressure(69)
但我要说的是,由于最大压力,环境已发生变化

campaign that has been brought against Iran.(70)
对伊朗提起的运动。

Yes, that has changed.(71)
是的,那已经改变了。

Has the ayatollah said that we are in themidst of a challenge, and how do you respond(72)
阿亚图拉是否说过我们正处于挑战之中,你们如何回应呢?

to that?(73)
那个?

Yes, that has changed.(74)
是的,那已经改变了。

But the reality is, is that I don't know thatI find direct evidence of what my colleague(75)
但实际情况是,我不知道我找到了同事的直接证据

suggested.(76)
建议。

I think that's an extrapolation that's a bittoo far.(77)
我认为这是一个有点太过分的推断。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Over the last couple weeks,we have seen U.S. military move, both an aircraft(78)
尼克·施菲林:过去几周,我们看到了美国的军事行动,都是一架飞机

carrier group, bombers to the region, Patriotmissiles.(79)
航母组,轰炸机到该地区,爱国者导弹。

The administration calls this defensive, callsit deterrence.(80)
政府称之为防御,称之为威慑。

And administration officials say that thathas successfully prevented Iran from attacking.(81)
政府官员说,这成功地阻止了伊朗的进攻。

Is that what you believe?(82)
这是你相信的吗?

SEN.(83)
SEN。

ROBERT MENENDEZ: Well, I don't know that,in fact, an attack didn't take place because(84)
ROBERT MENENDEZ:嗯,我不知道,事实上,没有发生攻击,因为

of the U.S. actions.(85)
美国的行动

I will say that to characterize the intelligence,there was a heightened concern.(86)
我会说,为了表征情报,有一个更高的关注。

I understand that.(87)
我明白那个。

And there was a response to that concern.(88)
并且对此问题作出了回应。

I don't know that one can say that, in fact,there were no actions as a result of that.(89)
我不知道可以说,实际上,没有任何行动。

And I'm not sure that, in the midst of havingall of that presence in the region and a continuing(90)
而且我不确定,在该地区拥有所有这些存在并且持续存在

maximum pressure campaign that has no off-ramp,that we are not building a pressure cooker(91)
没有匝道的最大压力运动,我们没有建造高压锅

that, eventually, if there is no pressureoutlet, will explode.(92)
最终,如果没有压力出口,会爆炸。

NICK SCHIFRIN: And that brings us back tothe strategy, Senator.(93)
NICK SCHIFRIN:这让我们回到了战略,参议员。

The administration says their maximum pressurecampaign has been successful.(94)
政府表示,他们的最大压力运动取得了成功。

They specifically cite that Hezbollah is lessable to conduct actions in the Middle East.(95)
他们特别指出真主党不太能够在中东采取行动。

Do you believe the strategy has been successfulso far and will be successful going forward?(96)
您是否认为该策略迄今为止取得了成功并将在未来取得成功?

SEN.(97)
SEN。

ROBERT MENENDEZ: Well, the maximum pressurecampaign, the success of it is measured ultimately(98)
ROBERT MENENDEZ:嗯,最大的压力运动,它的成功最终是衡量的

by whether or not you can get Iran back toa negotiating table to fix the deficiencies(99)
你是否可以让伊朗重返谈判桌来解决这些不足之处

in the JCPOA, to ensure that it doesn't havea pathway towards nuclear weapons.(100)
在JCPOA中,确保它没有通向核武器的途径。

That will be the ultimate determination.(101)
这将是最终的决心。

I think it's a little early to declare missionaccomplished as a result of the maximum pressure(102)
我认为,由于最大的压力,宣布完成任务还为时过早

campaign.(103)
运动。

So, yes, has Iran been affected by the newleveling of sanctions and other decisions(104)
所以,是的,伊朗受到了新的制裁和其他决定的影响

the administration has levied?(105)
政府征收了什么?

Absolutely.(106)
绝对。

Are they hurting in their economy?(107)
他们在经济上受到了伤害吗?

Absolutely.(108)
绝对。

But the fundamental question, what I walkedaway from this briefing not having any sense(109)
但基本问题是,我从这次通报中走出来没有任何意义

of, is that there is parallel track to cashin on the maximum pressure campaign, which(110)
是,在最大压力运动中存在平行轨道以获利

is to get Iran back to the negotiating table.(111)
是让伊朗回到谈判桌上。

And I think that that's a dangerous proposition.(112)
我认为这是一个危险的主张。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Senator Robert Menendez, Democratof New Jersey and ranking member of the Senate(113)
NICK SCHIFRIN:参议员Robert Menendez,新泽西州民主党人和参议院议员

Foreign Relations Committee, thank you verymuch.(114)
外交关系委员会,非常感谢。

SEN.(115)
SEN。

ROBERT MENENDEZ: Thank you.(116)
ROBERT MENENDEZ:谢谢。

NICK SCHIFRIN: And we now we turn to the chairmanof the Senate Foreign Relations Committee,(117)
尼克·施菲林:我们现在转向参议院外交关系委员会主席,

James Risch.(118)
詹姆斯里施

Senator, welcome back to the "NewsHour."(119)
参议员,欢迎回到“新闻时报”。

Let's start with the big picture and whatyou just heard from Senator Menendez there,(120)
让我们从大局开始,你刚才从参议员梅南德斯那里听到了什么,

fears about the strategy and fears that theU.S. isn't, as he put it, cashing in.(121)
担心战略和担心美国不会像他所说的那样兑现。

Do you believe that the U.S. has a strategythat is successful and effective right now?(122)
你是否相信美国现在有一个成功和有效的战略?

SEN.(123)
SEN。

JAMES RISCH (R-ID): You know, I not only believethat.(124)
JAMES RISCH(R-ID):你知道,我不仅相信这一点。

I also believe that their options are very,very narrow.(125)
我也相信他们的选择非常非常狭窄。

Our options are very, very narrow.(126)
我们的选择非常非常狭窄。

I have real confidence in the strategy thatis being pursued and also the team that's(127)
我对正在追求的战略以及那支团队非常有信心

pursuing it.(128)
追求它。

We had a number of people in front of us todaybriefing us, including the secretary of state,(129)
今天我们面前有很多人向我们介绍情况,包括国务卿,

the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,acting secretary of defense, who talked about(130)
谈判的参谋长联席会议主席,代理国防部长

how they came together and responded to therecent uptick of activity on the part of the(131)
他们如何走到一起,并回应了最近的活动上升

Iranians.(132)
伊朗人。

I think they handled it absolutely as wellas it could be handled.(133)
我认为他们处理它绝对是可以处理的。

And, look, we do not want war with the Iranians.(134)
而且,看,我们不希望与伊朗人开战。

And we have heard the president say that.(135)
我们听到总统这么说。

There isn't anybody in this building thatwants war with the Iranians.(136)
这座建筑中没有任何人想与伊朗人进行战争。

Having said that, the ball is in their court.(137)
话虽如此,球在他们的球场上。

They every day commit malign activities thatis designed to aggravate us to, to hurt us.(138)
他们每天都会进行旨在加重我们伤害我们的恶意活动。

Indeed, there's thousands of U.S. soldierswho were either killed or injured in recent(139)
事实上,最近有成千上万的美国士兵被杀或受伤

years in the Middle East, all because of Iran'smalign activity.(140)
在中东的几年,都是因为伊朗的恶性活动。

So the ball is in their court.(141)
所以球在他们的球场上。

They have been told by the U.N. what theycan't do.(142)
联合国告诉他们他们不能做什么。

And they know that the malign things thatthey're doing, like being the chief sponsor(143)
他们知道他们所做的恶行,就像是主要的赞助商

of terrorism in the world, really, that thatcan't continue.(144)
世界上的恐怖主义,真的,那是不可能继续下去的。

You know, this business of launching a rocketattack on our embassy in Iraq is an attack(145)
你知道,对我们驻伊拉克大使馆发动火箭袭击的事件是一次袭击

against U.S. soil.(146)
反对美国的土地。

People are saying, oh, the president wantsto go to war.(147)
人们说,哦,总统想要开战。

If he wanted to go to war, he had a perfectexcuse right there, and, instead...(148)
如果他想参加战争,那他就有一个完美的借口,而且......

(CROSSTALK)
NICK SCHIFRIN: Let me ask you about that attack.(149)
尼克·施菲林:我来问你这次袭击事件。

Mr. Chair, sorry to -- forgive me for interrupting,but let me ask you about that attack.(150)
主席先生,对不起 - 原谅我打断了,但是让我问你这次袭击事件。

Are you suggesting that Iran specificallyordered that attack on the U.S. Embassy?(151)
你是在暗示伊朗是否特意下令袭击美国大使馆?

SEN.(152)
SEN。

JAMES RISCH: I am.(153)
JAMES RISCH:我是。

I think that what you have is people who areeither Iranian or who are proxies who have(154)
我认为你拥有的是伊朗人或有代理人的人

been armed, trained, and ordered to committhose attacks -- and I include this one in(155)
武装,训练,并命令进行这些攻击 - 我把这个包括在内

those attacks -- as having done that.(156)
那些攻击 - 就像那样做了。

So, look, whether it's Iranians or whetherit's the proxies, the Hezbollah or the Houthis(157)
所以,看看,无论是伊朗人还是代理人,真主党还是胡希分子

or radical Shia groups that are active inIraq, if they're armed by, trained by, and(158)
或者在伊拉克活跃的激进什叶派团体,如果他们是武装的,受过训练的,并且是

ordered by Iran to commit an attack, as faras I'm concerned, that's an attack by Iran.(159)
据我所知,伊朗下令进行袭击,这是伊朗的攻击。

If you hire somebody to do something, youcan't say, well, I'm not responsible for this.(160)
如果你聘请某人做某事,你不能说,好吧,我对此不负责任。

Of course they're responsible for this.(161)
当然他们对此负责。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Senator Risch, in the minuteor so we have left, as you heard Senator Menendez(162)
NICK SCHIFRIN:参议员Risch,在我们离开的那一刻左右,你听到参议员Menendez

say, and Democrats have said this all day,that they risk a miscalculation, that they(163)
说,民主党人整天都这么说,他们冒着错误估计的风险

risk increasing U.S. forces to the region,where U.S. forces are operating near Iranian(164)
将美国军队增加到该地区的风险,美国军队在伊朗附近开展行动

forces.(165)
军队。

There could be some kind of accident, somekind of miscalculation.(166)
可能会出现某种意外,某种错误估计。

Do you worry about that right now?(167)
你现在担心吗?

SEN.(168)
SEN。

JAMES RISCH: Of course.(169)
JAMES RISCH:当然。

Everybody worries about miscalculations.(170)
每个人都担心计算错误。

But it is going to be miscalculations on thepart of the Iranians.(171)
但这将是伊朗人的错误估计。

We know what we're doing.(172)
我们知道我们在做什么。

We know where we're going.(173)
我们知道我们要去哪里。

We know what the intelligence is.(174)
我们知道智慧是什么。

I think the Iranians have a tendency to miscalculate.(175)
我认为伊朗人有误判的倾向。

I really believe that the action that's beentaken by the administration, sending the Naval(176)
我真的相信政府采取的行动,派遣海军

forces that they did, sending the bombersthat they did, convinced the Iranians that(177)
他们所做的那些部队,向轰炸机发送他们所做的,使伊朗人相信

they were miscalculating it.(178)
他们错误地估计了它。

And if they keep picking at us like they are,they're going to have direct deaths of Americans.(179)
如果他们像往常一样对我们采取行动,他们将直接死于美国人。

And nobody's going to stand by and let Irando that.(180)
没有人会袖手旁观让伊朗这样做。

They need to stand down.(181)
他们需要站起来。

They need to recalculate and recalibrate whatthey're doing.(182)
他们需要重新计算并重新校准他们正在做的事情。

And everything is going to be just fine, ifthey will do that.(183)
如果他们愿意的话,一切都会好起来的。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Senator James Risch, Republicanof Idaho and chairman of the Senate Foreign(184)
尼克·施菲林:参议员詹姆斯·里施,爱达荷州共和党人和参议院外交主席

Relations Committee, thank you very much.(185)
关系委员会,非常感谢。

SEN.(186)
SEN。

JAMES RISCH: Thank you.(187)
JAMES RISCH:谢谢。


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